Suddenly, Supers!

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That's even simpler. If they're born that way, then they are quite obviously not human. So they aren't protected by any legal human rights.

Considering an orangutang was legally declared a non-human person with rights, supers don't seem likely to have too much trouble in this area. Military and law enforcement may offer some extra incentives, though.

[vicky_molokh]

A thought:

Since the thread is about Supers, how about if the phenomenon also supernaturally grants the affected people the usual social Advantages that Supers commonly possess, such as Legal Immunity [var, and possibly with Informal], Zeroed (Ninja, I mean, Super, -0%) [10], Masked [1], Serendipity (Aspected: only to avoid repercussions of Supers-appropriate behaviour and nature -20%) [12/level] etc.?

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Gedrin

Which requires fewer new assumptions:

Radical physical changes do not impact the mind.
OR
Radical physical changes impact the mind.

Just looking at my medicine cabinet, I'd say alterations to the body impact the mind enough that there's a lot of time spent warning about the topic, and none of the medicines in my cabinet are likely to be significant enough to give super powers.

Of course, that assumes that super powers are physical in the first place. The change could well be mental, or spiritual, even if "Option A".

RE: DangerousThing
The possibility of Option C is one of the things that actually helped IMC. With the vast majority of supers appearing in the USofA(TM) there was a portion of the society, which might well have responded negatively, that took a "Chosen Land" view of the emergence of supers. Of course, just as many thought it was Option B, and for the same reasons. They essentially balanced each other out.

Again, something you'd look at based on evidence, not make any assumptions about one way or the other. Whether the mind is affected or not would be determined based on behavior and (when you brought some in for whatever reason or on whatever pretext) psychological interviews, tests, and instruments.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That's even simpler. If they're born that way, then they are quite obviously not human. So they aren't protected by any legal human rights.

Not obvious in the slightest. If they're born to human parents, and can have (fertile) kids with other humans, then by a biological definition they're the same species. Even if the latter part of that remains unconfirmed, I don't think you'd get any kind of instant consensus that people who suddenly display extranormal powers, but in other respects appear to be normal humans with the same physiology, genetics, psychology as others (apart from whatever specific variations in these may be tied in with their powers, which might well be none if no physical basis for the powers can be found), were something other than human, as opposed to displaying a greater range of variation in human capabilities than was previously assumed.

And even if it were determined that they were a different species or subspecies by reason of their powers... a lot of the constitutional and legal terminology on which legal rights are based doesn't refer to humans or human beings at all in the first place. It refers to persons, and there doesn't seem to be a definitive legal document that states that only Homo sapiens sapiens are or can be persons, and even if that's a common unwritten assumption, on the other side their attorneys should be able to react with great scorn to the idea that a person who walks around looking like a person, with whom you can hold a conversation like a person, grew up in human society as a regular person, and whom the authorities have even referred to themselves as a person of interest in their inquiries, is not a person under the law, when corporations are.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

A thought:

Since the thread is about Supers, how about if the phenomenon also supernaturally grants the affected people the usual social Advantages that Supers commonly possess, such as Legal Immunity [var, and possibly with Informal], Zeroed (Ninja, I mean, Super, -0%) [10], Masked [1], Serendipity (Aspected: only to avoid repercussions of Supers-appropriate behaviour and nature -20%) [12/level] etc.?

That's superheroes, not necessarily superhumans. There's been a lot of science fiction literature with people with superhuman powers of one variety or another who don't get any of this. Shoot, even certain comic book superheroes in costume don't get the Legal Immunity part, such as the X-Men.

[Gedrin]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Again, something you'd look at based on evidence, not make any assumptions about one way or the other. Whether the mind is affected or not would be determined based on behavior and (when you brought some in for whatever reason or on whatever pretext) psychological interviews, tests, and instruments.

That's kinda my point. No one knows anything. It's quite rational, I'd argue probable, that the sorts of changes that give people the ability to shoot lightning from their eyes would also change their mental state. Reasonable people who are charged with the safety and security of the public will want to get a handle on things. That means test subjects.

The initial reaction of "authorities" to supers, and visa-versa, will matter a great deal on how those subjects are gathered. If there are cooperative supers willing to help in the investigation early on, it'll do a lot to ease tensions. If nearly every exposure is criminal or uncontrollable, it will damage things greatly.

Media exposure would matter most in terms of public perception. Given a broad cross section of supers, there's going to be video of crazed pyros torching people alive. If no one is out there standing in the way of the fire, protecting innocents and helping "civilization" against them, things are just going to be bad. If you want to run "5 color" (more than just four) suddenly-supers, I think this is a great place to position your PC heroes. Let their actions be caught on camera, and that can sway the public's opinion of supers.

I'd also say it really does matter how strong your supers are. If your supers are essentially immortal, or nigh unkillable by normal means, there are issues. If a .338 to the head puts down almost all of them...there's likely less trouble. The power disparity matters, particularly in terms of consequence and civil control.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Gedrin

That's kinda my point. No one knows anything. It's quite rational, I'd argue probable, that the sorts of changes that give people the ability to shoot lightning from their eyes would also change their mental state. Reasonable people who are charged with the safety and security of the public will want to get a handle on things. That means test subjects.

Eventually, sure, but at first you'd judge based on behavior in the field. If people who've suddenly gained powers are acting reasonably (or at least as reasonably as can be expected given that suddenly gaining powers is kind of freaky), you can be more gentle in your methods of getting interview and test subjects, possibly simply inviting them in for a friendly talk, than if they mostly seem to be acting manically or in an otherwise unbalanced manner.... in which case, tranq darts and sedation while you study them, if they're susceptible to such methods, might seem necessary at least to some.

But their initial behavior when first observed will give the authorities something to go on, is my point - there's no sense assuming they're all mentally unbalanced if they're not actually showing signs of that, or that they're in their right minds and just choosing to mess with everybody if they're ranting and raving and rampaging.

Originally Posted by Gedrin

The initial reaction of "authorities" to supers, and visa-versa, will matter a great deal on how those subjects are gathered. If there are cooperative supers willing to help in the investigation early on, it'll do a lot to ease tensions. If nearly every exposure is criminal or uncontrollable, it will damage things greatly.

And how they're gathered will, or at least should, depend largely on how they present themselves. If they're destructive, of course you'll need to intervene. If they present in other odd or worrying ways, sure, you'll likely consider the more forceful means of gathering them up (even though the literature on how law enforcement should ideally deal with the mentally ill actually suggests less confrontational tactics are advisable, but I wouldn't expect reason to fully hold sway). But if they're presenting like pretty normal, slightly freaked out people, or even just enjoying the ability to fly or whatever or showing off a little, or especially if they're trying to perform public services (even if the professionals need to rein them in or give them some advice), then it would be counterproductive for the authorities to treat them automatically as crazed loons or the enemy.

Originally Posted by Gedrin

Media exposure would matter most in terms of public perception. Given a broad cross section of supers, there's going to be video of crazed pyros torching people alive. If no one is out there standing in the way of the fire, protecting innocents and helping "civilization" against them, things are just going to be bad. If you want to run "5 color" (more than just four) suddenly-supers, I think this is a great place to position your PC heroes. Let their actions be caught on camera, and that can sway the public's opinion of supers.

I'd also say it really does matter how strong your supers are. If your supers are essentially immortal, or nigh unkillable by normal means, there are issues. If a .338 to the head puts down almost all of them...there's likely less trouble. The power disparity matters, particularly in terms of consequence and civil control.

This is a great motivation for deciding to become a 'superhero', of course, even apart from simple altruism or being a nerd who's always wanted to be one, pioneered in the X-Men comics (although still as just one motivation among several) - trying to put a good PR spin on the existence of superhumans before public opinion calls for you all to be put in camps or laboratories.

And the power level thing kind of cuts both ways. Sure, the more powerful they are, the more worrying it is to the authorities and the public in general... but by that same token, the less likely it is that you can just take out or control them all, so the more important it is to handle things right and not make enemies of those disposed to be good citizens until you **** them off by trying to throw them in a concentration camp... especially since the more powerful they are, the more interest the government has in employing the friendlies among them for purposes of national security, and keeping them on side will work better if you're employing carrots as well as or instead of sticks.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

That's superheroes, not necessarily superhumans. There's been a lot of science fiction literature with people with superhuman powers of one variety or another who don't get any of this. Shoot, even certain comic book superheroes in costume don't get the Legal Immunity part, such as the X-Men.

Well, I remembered that the word 'Supers' seems to be used more as superheroes, while Powers is for all sorts of superhumans.
As for X-Men . . . well, X-Men are kinda heavy-handed metaphor for KKK/Nazi racism/homophobia/other -isms.

Point is, people seem to want supers for the supers genre conventions. I don't quite get what's so cool about the whole set of conventions, but it does seem to be a thing. *shrug*

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

This is a great motivation for deciding to become a 'superhero', of course, even apart from simple altruism or being a nerd who's always wanted to be one, pioneered in the X-Men comics (although still as just one motivation among several) - trying to put a good PR spin on the existence of superhumans before public opinion calls for you all to be put in camps or laboratories.
.

That's the reason why, in Wearing the Cape, the protagonist's team did initially decide to model themselves on comic book superheroes. Not only did the merchandising make it a good living, but it mean they could manage their public image in a way that would protect them from being "interned" or "drafted" or whatever.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by christ0pher

Also, due to the genetic melting pot that is the US, the majority show up here.

The more genetically mixed up a person is the more likely they are to become a super?

Broadly, the genomic analysis found that on an average the African American genome was 73.2 percent African, 24 percent European and 0.8 percent Native American. Latinos as expected had significantly more Native American ancestry with the average Latino genome being 18 percent Native American, 65.1 percent European and 6.2 percent African.

With respect to European Americans, the percentages are much more different than African Americans or Latinos, with European American genomes being 98.6 percent European, 0.19 percent African and 0.18 percent Native American.

From what I know of South America, I would expect something similar.

So Black and Latino people are much more likely to get super powers?

Doesn't the US imprison an absurd percentage of black and Latino men?