GURPS 4e Entry Point

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Doktor Teufel

Incorrect! I am really keen on running a game world (or multiple game worlds) that I designed myself, set in a genre of my choosing. This is utterly impossible with nearly any other system.

Which reads to me that you are really keen on running a certain game, and GURPS is what you found to run it. This is not the case for others.

I got mine for around $50.00, and that was months ago. Of course, that would require you to order from the Internet.

And would sidestep supporting local businesses. I could likely find a technical manual or a coursebook, for example, at the same price reduction too, if I was willing to accept the tradeoffs.

Not that it affects me, but who says that GURPS can't handle high-powered genres?

That's the general perception of GURPS and has been for over a decade. GURPS Supers didn't help nor that most GURPS settings and genres are low-powered, default point values were low, and default combat lethal. Jurgen, for example, has mentioned this before. 4e may eventually change the perception but it's currently still there.

Ever run a game in the HERO System? It has its own problems, and they are as onerous as GURPS' problems, if not more so.

No. Again I was referring to a general perception and Sidekick is certainly cheaper and slimmer than GURPS 4e by almost $65 and 450 pages while being the essentials of the game in one book. $10 (or $7 on pdf) is even low enough for a compulsive buy and try for almost anyone into RPGs.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by RevBob

Given the equal choice between reading a textbook or reading a novel, the novel's gonna win.

That or reading an actual textbook that will help complete a degree or help earn some more money.

Unfortunately, MIBs can't be everywhere all the time...and that's where this proposed entry point comes in.

Dedicated local groups that run GURPS taking a night a month or so at the FLGS to run their game or better yet a demo game would also help. Though having something between GURPS Lite and GURPS Basic to use and hand out would help a lot IMO. :)

[Paul]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I once proposed a set of what I called "Self Contained Scenarios." Adventures or mini-campaigns that could be played with only either Lite or the Basic Set (this was before Basic 4e came out), and would be enhanced greatly by possessing ONE 128 page 3e book.

That's an interesting idea. Alternatively, you may be able to condense Lite to *just what was needed* for the scenario, and make the whole thing fill 29 pages of a 30 page download. (The 30th page would be a list of the books you'd need to expand the scenario into a campaign.)

I'm seeing some interesting ideas in this thread -- keep it up!

Also: for the purposes of this thread, let's assume the need for a low-cost, low-complexity product is real. Debates against the need for such a product really belong in another thread, just to keep the discussions flowing.

[Qoltar]

Paul,
Since you commented on the thread again - can I suggest something?

I work at a game store and notice that you have most of your humor and card games in a standard box size. (Ninja Burger, Munchkin, etc.)

How about packaging in that box size a small game that uses basic GURPS mechanics? Something that maybe 2 to 4 players can do.

If you package more than one like this - pick a different genre for each one and include a pamphlet sheet inside that explains the LARGER GURPS line, and highlights the world book that relates to the box game version.

For example "OrcFight!!" A fun simple battle between 4-5 Orcs and a some elves and humans. Cardboard counters with bases , using the GURPS basic combat rules and 3 by 5 character cards for each cardboard counter. But the implied setting is Caithness of Yrth that is mentioned in BANESTORM.

'Powerfight!" = the same idea but with superhero and Supervillian type characters capsulated. ...also with 4 to 5 cardbound charaters and character cards on each side. And with an inside promo sheet for GURPS:POWERS

You make it so that these simple characters may also be can be used in a regular GURPS game later ...so that the parts and map boards inside are reusable with the regular GURPS games the purchaser might get interested in doing later.

- E.W. Charlton

[zorg]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Paul,
Since you commented on the thread again - can I suggest something?

I work at a game store and notice that you have most of your humor and card games in a standard box size. (Ninja Burger, Munchkin, etc.)

How about packaging in that box size a small game that uses basic GURPS mechanics? Something that maybe 2 to 4 players can do.

Such as.... Ninja Burger?

[Almafeta]

For these 32-page settings, you could also 'd20-fy' chargen by using templates that hold people's hands. Don't list the point costs for things other than selecting advantages and disadvantages, and then only use ones that cost multiples of 5 points; skills in templates would list skill levels, but not difficulties or point costs.

The templates could give them (say) 100 points of attributes, 40 points of advantages, 25 points of disadvantages, 5 4-point primary skills, 5 2-point secondary skills, and 5 1-point background skills, fully compatible with the full GURPS rules. But the new players would never have to think about point sums; just making choices that suit their character ideas from a few lists.

The full chargen rules (with a handy table listing all the attributes, advantages, disadvantages, and skills, with their costs/difficulties) would make for a tidy 'Advanced Chargen' page near the back of your 32-page booklet. But until players new to point-based systems (or new to roleplaying!) are ready for the full complexity and detail of GURPS, they can use the streamlined templates to create detailed, fully-compatible characters with all the compexity of creating a 1st-level D&D fighter.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

How about packaging in that box size a small game that uses basic GURPS mechanics? Something that maybe 2 to 4 players can do.

Boxed game sets have been done before, and will likely be done again. However, unless you're willing for them to be a *large* loss leader -- like the D&D Basic thingee -- the price tag will scare away most of those whom the content is designed to attract.

I'm thinking GURPS Lite's format (free pdf and ~30pg printout) is the way to go.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Paul

That's an interesting idea. Alternatively, you may be able to condense Lite to *just what was needed* for the scenario, and make the whole thing fill 29 pages of a 30 page download. (The 30th page would be a list of the books you'd need to expand the scenario into a campaign.)

If someone were to write this, would you be able to pay them?

[Doktor Teufel]

Originally Posted by Casey

And would sidestep supporting local businesses. I could likely find a technical manual or a coursebook, for example, at the same price reduction too, if I was willing to accept the tradeoffs.

*shrug* This is an ongoing quandary in our society: Buy cheaper or buy from a small local business? Frankly, I'm going to be looking out for number one until I start to draw a reasonable income (which may be never); not everyone can afford to shop more expensively to help support local businesses and stick it to The Man. To some folks (college students, for example), five bucks is a lot of money.

Even so, I still shop at local FLGSs from time to time and take a financial hit.

Since you're so worried about the cost of the Basic Set, just pay $50 for it on the Internet. Then, if you like it, donate $24 to a FLGS. Solves your moral quandary . . . best of both worlds!

[Qoltar]

Paul,
What I 'm thinking of is somethin affordable that I can hook custimers into thinking about GURPs and buying more of it later. Have had several custoimers try the D&D pre-painted miniatures box thing. When they hear that the combat system in regular D&D is the same - they come back and buy those hardbacks.

Why not something similiar for GURPS?

OR those mini adventure things thar Paizo publishing is doing called GameMastery - each one of those could of been done GURPS-mechanis style with cardboard heroes instead of pewter minis. Heck there might be enogh room to incloded NPC write up . Each of those is around $15.00. Gurps kind of needs a lower cost entry thing.

As for pdfs - frankly a lot of the customers I have would rather have something they can hold in their hhands or that my store could sell to them. (hint, hint, elephant-sized hint) I can't sell something that is not physically in the store .

I do want to see GURPS stuff sell more often.

Edmund W. Charlton