GURPS 4e Entry Point

[Paul]

Off-topic crap shuffled over to Gen Chat. Let's keep it friendly folks.

[Hex]

Originally Posted by Paul

Off-topic crap shuffled over to Gen Chat. Let's keep it friendly folks.

I'm not trying to do your job...but in following this thread, although you couldn't call the Doktor or Pudding the best of friends. They are just disagreeing on some points. In my opinion, there really hasn't been any line crossed...nor does it appear that it will happen.

Two voices...each expressing their opinion, exemplified by pointing out the other persons point of view.

Was it really necessary to post a warning? It just seems to be sending a message that presenting a spirited discussion is being frowned upon here at the SJ games forum.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Hex

I'm not trying to do your job...but in following this thread, although you couldn't call the Doktor or Pudding the best of friends.

What are you talking about? I love him like a brother!

They are just disagreeing on some points. In my opinion, there really hasn't been any line crossed...nor does it appear that it will happen.

Two voices...each expressing their opinion, exemplified by pointing out the other persons point of view.

Was it really necessary to post a warning? It just seems to be sending a message that presenting a spirited discussion is being frowned upon here at the SJ games forum.

Doc Romulas[sp?] broke in after that and that dialog got exised.

Back On topic (so as not to explode Paul's head)...
If Lite ever gets revised (esp. remove the shotgun from the weapons table) it might also make sense to distribute a free adventure with it. Either of the two free 3e adventures might work (updated to 4e, natch), but I think something cross-genre might even be better.

[Almafeta]

Trying to post on-topic:

Originally Posted by DeDiceManCometh

This thread is to unload some tangency off of the GURPS/4E... could be more attractive? thread. It is to discuss the challenges, options, and goals of creating a product beyond the current GURPS Lite that lowers the bar for new players.

I'll kick off the discussion by asking, what form should this product take? Boxed set? Microgame, a la Melee? Mini-game with a couple of cheap plastic minis? And three dice? A card game that somehow includes the basic combat mechanic? A game like Zombies with all of the aforementioned, but with the dice mechanic of GURPS? (Dudes, I am brain dumping here. Most of this is absurd, but you know, keep trying...)

Myself, I'd try to make GURPS more attractive for children. For every 13-year-old D&D player that's going to grow up to be a 30-year-old D&D gamer, I want to see a 13-year-old GURPShead. To do that, you'd want to try licenses. Pick shows that are targeted towards children, but don't insult their intelligence, and which can be mature enough for their parents (or adult roleplaying friends) to play too. Shows like Justice League, Naruto, Avatar, IGPX, et multiple cetera. These would go a long way.

A good attempt at the 'hakkenslash' genre would be good. One book with the rules, premade templates (with skills beyond those in the templates being limited to experience) for chargen, and a long list of treasures, spells, and monsters, perhaps with a random adventure generator (plot A with complication B in location C with NPCs D-G who have personalities H-K, for reward M).

I'd like to see a wargame as well. Do it like the D&D wargame: Use most of the normal rules of the RPG, but leave the complex chargen at home. GURPS could handle squad-level tactics (Warhammer, D&D, Heroclix, Heroscape) well.

Finally: more Powered-By-GURPS books. These are, by their very nature, entry points!

[Hex]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What are you talking about? I love him like a brother! Doc Romulas[sp?] broke in after that and that dialog got exised.

My apologies then.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Back On topic (so as not to explode Paul's head)...

We wouldn't want that.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If Lite ever gets revised (esp. remove the shotgun from the weapons table) it might also make sense to distribute a free adventure with it. Either of the two free 3e adventures might work (updated to 4e, natch), but I think something cross-genre might even be better.

Not bad...but I'd even settle on some free adventures being released on e23. You know advertise as such in GURPS lite...

[Almafeta]

Originally Posted by Hex

Not bad...but I'd even settle on some free adventures being released on e23. You know advertise as such in GURPS lite...

And the space for those ads would fit perfectly in the space freed up by the Jumper advantage :D

[brehaut]

Personally, i think a free 16 - 32 page Space Opera setting + adventure + 4 characters for use with Lite would be really good. It wouldn't be competing directly with D&D, so you would be able to avoid
'do you wanna try this fantasy game?'
'is that D&D?'
'its similar but different'
'why not just play D&D then?'
type situations.

[grendel]

Originally Posted by Almafeta

Myself, I'd try to make GURPS more attractive for children. For every 13-year-old D&D player that's going to grow up to be a 30-year-old D&D gamer, I want to see a 13-year-old GURPShead. To do that, you'd want to try licenses. Pick shows that are targeted towards children, but don't insult their intelligence, and which can be mature enough for their parents (or adult roleplaying friends) to play too. Shows like Justice League, Naruto, Avatar, IGPX, et multiple cetera. These would go a long way.

A good attempt at the 'hakkenslash' genre would be good. One book with the rules, premade templates (with skills beyond those in the templates being limited to experience) for chargen, and a long list of treasures, spells, and monsters, perhaps with a random adventure generator (plot A with complication B in location C with NPCs D-G who have personalities H-K, for reward M).

Exactly the type of thing I was going for. And exactly the same type of market. Honestly any real expansion in GURPS players is really going to come from young people (and with today’s X-box 360s and movies it is a fight). I do agree about the comment that a Hack and Slash D&D style game might not be the way to go, with people saying “well why play one thing like D&D when you could play D&D” makes perfect sense. The license idea works good but problem with that is it cost a lot and you’d want a inexpensive entry point, and historically licensed games just don’t make enough money to really justify it. If it did though, I think something based on the new Teen Titans cartoon would have worked on those demographics. Naruto would work well also.

So now we just need to come up with the next greatest comic/animated series idea, create it, market it, develop a massive following and then develop a Powered by GURPS book and Walla! We’ll have a perfect entry point for GURPS! Let’s get down to work!

[Digren Kaellise]

Originally Posted by Doktor Teufel

If it were just some old book about something that didn't interest them, that'd be one thing; I don't read pottery or steelworking books, for example, even if they're short. But we're essentially talking about actual gamers who go for a different system because it is shinier or seems easier to read.

Could we agree, first off, that GURPS is a game that people play for fun?

Second, could I propose that GURPS is not homogeneous? In other words, the act of playing GURPS is not the same activity all the time, but is instead a variety of activities. For example, character creation is very different from combat, which is very different from non-combat role-playing.

Third, could I postulate that some people like some aspects of GURPS better than others? And, since this is a game, people might only performs the parts of the game they like?

Consider more examples from other fields:

Would you consider a baseball pitcher (not pro, just for fun) to be lazy because he refused to even try to play shortstop, or to hit a homerun? Those are all parts of the same game, so clearly he must love to do all of them, right?

Or, for people who play online games like World of Warcraft, why don't they all spend time on message boards and websites devoted to the game, where they can learn new strategies and figure out exactly how their abilities work, so that they know the most efficient ability to use in every situation? That's just 10-20 message board threads on 2 or 3 different boards to read each day, and it is a part of the game. Anyone who didn't want to do that, and just wanted to play is clearly lazy.

Or what if someone likes to collect stamps from letters they receive, and put them in albums, but they don't read the entire Scott catalog so they can precisely identify every stamp's date of issue and approximate retail value? Are they lazy, or are they only interested in some aspects of the general hobby of philately and ignore the rest?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Hex

We wouldn't want that.
Not bad...but I'd even settle on some free adventures being released on e23. You know advertise as such in GURPS lite...

Like this one?