Grappling - ruleset preferences and issues (Basic, Pyramid, MA, TG etc.)

[McAllister]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

Looking at the rules, we ended up figuring that the basic rules say "You can't Concentrate" and the TG rules say "You can, at such a huge penalty that your chances are 0% with a sufficiently strong foe" and deciding we'd need a third way. We'll see how it works out, and if it does, it'll eventually show up somewhere for common use.

I would use TG and introduce All-Out Concentrate with a bonus of, pick one:
+ HT (or maybe ST or even Will again)
+ 10
+ Opponent's Trained ST (to cancel out the penalty)

That way, you can throw everything into a Concentrate that's reasonably likely to succeed, but if you fail (or whatever you did with Concentrate didn't end the fight), you're probably in for a righteous pummeling.

[Yako]

After following this rather interesting thread - and not having much to add to the basic topic than stating that I also do not really feel won over by technical grappling despite liking rule crunch in general, thus being most of all in vicky mookh's camp - I did want to invite more attention to the issue of the last few posts of grappling and concentration, and thus allowed myself to make the thread below:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...83#post1836483



I think it is a sufficiently important topic to have it specifically addressed, I would be happy if anyone interested in that discussion would have a look at it.


Otherwise...


Maybe it would be useful to make a "technical grappling to Basic Set / Martial Arts" conversion of some of the rules and ideas, I did in particular like that it had some input on telekinesis, grappling and the effect of being lifted into the air as I myself had been discussing it on here.

If I get to it, I may read Technical Grappling more thoroughly myself and make notes on any good concept or rule that can be added to the Basic Set approach to grappling.

I myself have used quite a bit of grappling in my time and I must say, unlike thing such as the slam rules (which indeed produce headaches on table and away from it), grappling did seem very workable to me, I rarely encountered any problem aside maybe from extreme cases only ever popping up in theory (human grappling dinosaur and imposing a dex penalty at all, regular contest pins being highly dependent on when you apply the "mutual reduction" of strength and such).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Yako

Maybe it would be useful to make a "technical grappling to Basic Set / Martial Arts" conversion of some of the rules and ideas, I did in particular like that it had some input on telekinesis, grappling and the effect of being lifted into the air as I myself had been discussing it on here.

If I get to it, I may read Technical Grappling more thoroughly myself and make notes on any good concept or rule that can be added to the Basic Set approach to grappling.

I myself have used quite a bit of grappling in my time and I must say, unlike thing such as the slam rules (which indeed produce headaches on table and away from it), grappling did seem very workable to me, I rarely encountered any problem aside maybe from extreme cases only ever popping up in theory (human grappling dinosaur and imposing a dex penalty at all, regular contest pins being highly dependent on when you apply the "mutual reduction" of strength and such).

That's an interesting direction of thought. The whole idea of finding ways to handle some of the events that TG started handling, but in a B+MA framework, using the components that B+MA uses and without rewriting the fundamental rules. E.g. with the human-vs-dinosaur thing, make the DX penalty smaller if the grapplee's ST exceeds that of the grappler by some amount, e.g. reduce the penalty by 1 for each full 25% of ST+LiftST that the grapplee has over the grappler.
Now, mutual reductions of ST in Regular Contests might require some reworking of 'when to' criteria, which slightly changes a fundamental mechanic, but that's probably the worst one that the approach will have to deal with.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Yako

Otherwise...


Maybe it would be useful to make a "technical grappling to Basic Set / Martial Arts" conversion of some of the rules and ideas, I did in particular like that it had some input on telekinesis, grappling and the effect of being lifted into the air as I myself had been discussing it on here.

If I get to it, I may read Technical Grappling more thoroughly myself and make notes on any good concept or rule that can be added to the Basic Set approach to grappling.

I myself have used quite a bit of grappling in my time and I must say, unlike thing such as the slam rules (which indeed produce headaches on table and away from it), grappling did seem very workable to me, I rarely encountered any problem aside maybe from extreme cases only ever popping up in theory (human grappling dinosaur and imposing a dex penalty at all, regular contest pins being highly dependent on when you apply the "mutual reduction" of strength and such).

Anyone else interested in this idea? I see Yako is offline for quite some while, and it takes at least two people to discuss an idea . . .