DF: Armor Layering and Enchantments

[Stix4armz]

Originally Posted by Zeta Blaze

Look at it this way dose Lighten affect all the gear you carry? If not then why does it affect armor you add. If so it should. Lets say you has a mail shirt with Lighten on it and you salvage a non magical great helm and put it on dose it get lighten or not. I think not but if it dose Lighten should affect all other armor.

Right, but remember the thread title; I'm talking specifically about Dungeon Fantasy, which uses the prices for enchanting the whole set of armor. If it was piece by piece enchanting that would totally make sense, but with DFs whole set of armor pricing it brings up the question.

If I have both layers of armor in full (in this case Giant Spider Silk armor will go under DR9 plate armor) at the time of enchanting, so I'm not talking about swapping out pieces or anything like that, why wouldn't the enchantment affect all the pieces? Especially given Kromm's ruling about enchantments providing the same effect not stacking from earlier in the thread.

[Zeta Blaze]

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

...I'm not talking about swapping out pieces or anything like that, why wouldn't the enchantment affect all the pieces?...

If you are doing it that way and have it all done in a batch I would allow it but piece separated from the "Main Part" wouldn't benefit others niter would distinct pieces added later. I also wouldn't let you pull the trick of having the inner layer having a separate fortify as insurance against penetration ruining the outer layer. Though just waring the undershirt would have the Full fortify.

IMO there are tradeoffs.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

Right, but remember the thread title; I'm talking specifically about Dungeon Fantasy, which uses the prices for enchanting the whole set of armor. If it was piece by piece enchanting that would totally make sense, but with DFs whole set of armor pricing it brings up the question.

Where does DF say not to use piecemeal enchantment costs? The way I read it, DF1, p. 30 provides a sample of enchantments and their costs, for the convenience of players and GMs. It doesn't say anything about not using piecemeal costs that I can see.

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

Especially given Kromm's ruling about enchantments providing the same effect not stacking from earlier in the thread.

Saying that you can only get, at most, +X DR from Fortify and you only count the best Fortify doesn't necessarily mean that:

a) Lighten doesn't stack
or
b) Lighten applies to all suits of armor worn, even those not enchanted.

You can rule that it does in your own games, of course, but "Fortify works like this, so all armor enchantments work like this" doesn't necessarily follow. If you do allow this, it would seem like the best option is a suit of Giant Spider Silk cloth with 50% lighten - wear it under anything, it's all half weight. Me, I'd rather charge you $10K per layer for such a solid benefit.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

Right, but remember the thread title; I'm talking specifically about Dungeon Fantasy, which uses the prices for enchanting the whole set of armor.

Why do you think that?

Originally Posted by Dungeon Fantasy 8: Treasure Tables p.49

For partial pieces of armor, reduce the cost of the enchantment proportionately using the table on Magic, p. 66.

[Stix4armz]

I was referring to the costs provided at the end of DF 1, which are for the full suits of armor.

There was actually kind of a debate in our gaming group right now as to whether we should allow piecemeal enchanting or not, since we couldn't find anything about it and the only things listed were for the full set of armor. Seeing your quote from DF6 will actually help clear that up definitively, so thank you. (Seeing as it was from DF6 I can see why nobody found it sooner, that's not a book that gets used as frequently)

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Then it becomes even more efficient, as one of the few balancing factors is the 'destroyed after 5 penetrations' part.

Huh. I never noticed that that was a rule. Sounds horribly annoying to keep track of.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Langy

Huh. I never noticed that that was a rule. Sounds horribly annoying to keep track of.

I've done armor damage in play. It wasn't bad, as long as all of the players were on board for it. My players still make offhand remarks that start with "if we were tracking penetrations, then . . . " It's like tracking anything else that's cumulative - if everyone is okay with ticking off marks on their sheet, and knows what the total can be at a maximum, it's not a problem.

That said, we don't use it for my DF game, but it's a flavor-and-style issue, not a difficulty or annoyance issue.

[MIB.6361]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

I've done armor damage in play. It wasn't bad, as long as all of the players were on board for it. My players still make offhand remarks that start with "if we were tracking penetrations, then . . . " It's like tracking anything else that's cumulative - if everyone is okay with ticking off marks on their sheet, and knows what the total can be at a maximum, it's not a problem.

That said, we don't use it for my DF game, but it's a flavor-and-style issue, not a difficulty or annoyance issue.

I don't use it in my DF game. However, and I suppose I'm going to have to put this in my optional rules now, if a shield or armor takes a huge hit, I'll rule it destroyed. Usually, armor might still provide it's mundane DR from that direction, but shields are gone. Seems to work without issue so far.