DF: Armor Layering and Enchantments

[RobKamm]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Don't forget that it's 5 times per natural/base DR of the armor. The numerous examples of the T-Shirt warrior point out that they only get 5 penetrations before losing enchantment, but Fortify on TL9 DR40 armor would keep its enchantment for 200 penetrations.

Yes. Which demonstrates why I shouldn't post while trying to run out the door to work. Thank you for catching it. That sentence ought to have read:

There is a small benefit to getting the lower layers enchanted that I've considered in theory, but have never seen come up in play. That is that it may be possible for the outer layer (presumably with the heavier enchantment) to be penetrated enough times to lose it's enchantment.

The point, however, remains. The outer armour either stops the hit or the hit is usually strong enough to blast through both layers and cause enough injury that the subject is looking for the exit. I can't remember ever having seen a fight or even running series of fights wherein the inner layer outlasted the outer one. We track just in case, but it really has proven a theoretical issue for us.

For the sake of full disclosure: I've can only remember one player go with a breastplate over a mail hauberk and try to get both Fortified. If memory serves he only got Fortify 1 on the mail -- so even in that extreme example there wasn't a large range of damages that would have penetrated one but not the other. Most of the others were DR0 gambesons (Fortified to DR1) under mail - even less of a range. They've done it more as a "see what I can do" and a cheap safety net rather than realizing actual benefit in play.

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Deflect discounted for a hit location only protects that hit location.

Full cost Deflect on Armor, Deflect on a Shield, and Deflect on a weapon are cumulative (unless Kromm is reversing his position there). Only one Armor Deflect applies at a time, so if your full suit has Deflect 1 and your helmet has Deflect 2, your body has DB+1 and head has total DB+2.

On any given defense, you can benefit from Deflect from a single weapon, a single shield, and a single armor enchantment.

So if you have a medium shield (DB2) with Deflect 2, you have total DB 4.
If you add Deflect 2 to your armor, you now have another +2 for DB 6.
And if you add Deflect 2 to your sword, you now have another +2 for DB 8.

I don't remember Kromm mentioning Deflect, but I'm fairly certain Deflect won't stack any more than any other spell does. It gives you a defense bonus. It doesn't matter if it's on armor, clothing, shield or weapon.
Deflect is over-powered enough as is!

[the_matrix_walker]

He didn't in this thread. but see here....
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...708#post125708

[Stix4armz]

Okay. Now that we've gotten out of the dungeon and I'm in the process of actually statting this armor for real I have another question.

We've established that you can't layer Fortify and the like, but now I'm confused on another enchantment. If I layer armor do I have to enchant both sets with Lighten or can I just Lighten my armor and it affects both sets because "its magic"? And if you have to Lighten both sets how do you differentiate between Lighten and Fortify to say that one has to be layered and the other cannot?

Thanks!

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

In Dungeon Fantasy I know that you can boost your DR by layering armor, wearing cloth armor underneath mail or plate for example, and I know you can boost the DR of your armor with the Fortify enchantment. My question is if you can layer armor and then enchant both layers of armor with the Fortify enchantment separately in order to gain a further DR boost?

Let me clarify what I am not asking, I know that the Fortify enchantment found in DF 1 is for the whole set of armor and you can't just pay that $100 for Fortify 1 for each piece of armor and crank your DR up that way. I'm also not asking about piece by piece armor enchanting either, though that might be a discussion worth having in another thread. I am just looking for clarity on whether layered armor is considered separate when it comes to enchantments.

If you're layering a full set of cloth armor underneath a full set of plate armor, they are separate sets of armor right? So can I enchant the cloth armor with Fortify and the plate armor with Fortify?

If the answer is no you can't Fortify both sets of armor separately, then my next question would be: Do I get the +1 (or whatever level) bonus if I get caught without my plate armor on for whatever reason?

Hi, I'm running a game over on an RP site where I (under a different username) happen to have gotten a request to join from a user with your exact username. If that happens to not be coincidental, I'd advise paying careful attention to Kromm, and the fact that I will be using different prices for enchantment based on using a different enchanting system.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

Okay. Now that we've gotten out of the dungeon and I'm in the process of actually statting this armor for real I have another question.

We've established that you can't layer Fortify and the like, but now I'm confused on another enchantment. If I layer armor do I have to enchant both sets with Lighten or can I just Lighten my armor and it affects both sets because "its magic"? And if you have to Lighten both sets how do you differentiate between Lighten and Fortify to say that one has to be layered and the other cannot?

Thanks!

Ive always gone with "Lighten must be put on each suit". If you have layered armor, you dont have an issue because the target for the Lighten spell is the weight of a single suit of armor. It does not, for example, make the wearer lighter. So Plate Harness with Mail under neath, two lighten spells, both bits 25% lighter.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by chandley

Ive always gone with "Lighten must be put on each suit".

I do the same - Lighten on each suit, and they all apply.

[Stix4armz]

Okay, but that doesn't answer my other question. Why? All other enchantment spells do not stack, so if you require both sets to be Lightened separately why?

It would seem to me that the lighten enchantment would affect every piece of armor, after all how would the enchantment "know" which armor belonged to which set? Kromm's simple explanation about Fortify not stacking was:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Basically, "It's magic!" Use whatever in-world justification you like...

Enchantments seem to treat all armor as one set, the greater enchantment being the only one that works when they are layered. Would not Lighten then work on all equipped armor?

And again, if not: Why?

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

And again, if not: Why?

Just re-quote Kromm - it's magic, use whatever explanation you want. I know what mine is, but it's not remotely RAW. But regardless of why, it's per-suit for Lighten in my games. I highly recommend playing it that way, if only to make layered armor more expensive.

[Zeta Blaze]

Originally Posted by Stix4armz

Okay, but that doesn't answer my other question. Why? All other enchantment spells do not stack, so if you require both sets to be Lightened separately why?
... if not: Why?

Look at it this way dose Lighten affect all the gear you carry? If not then why does it affect armor you add. If so it should. Lets say you has a mail shirt with Lighten on it and you salvage a non magical great helm and put it on dose it get lighten or not. I think not but if it dose Lighten should affect all other armor.