Cinematic Whip Wielding?

Varyon · 10-29-2014, 04:03 PM

A Perk to get rid of the Parry U is probably about right (EDIT: You could go as high as [2], as Striking ST +2 (Only for Defensive Attacks that negate U -80%), but [1] sounds about right to me). Technically getting rid of the -2 would require Enhanced Parry 2 (Whip) [10], but because it's a built-in penalty I'd be comfortable with your Hard Technique approach (honestly, a Perk - akin to Exotic Weapon Training - wouldn't be outlandish here).

All that said, a whip in a cinematic setting can be an extremely powerful weapon. It's sw-2(0.5) cr at a Reach of up to 7 yards (an archer is suffering -3 from Range there) by default. A cinematic whip wielder is going to always use the Crack technique, boosting that to sw(0.5), and in a cinematic setting whips that lack that poor armor divisor should certainly be available. With Weapon Master, you're almost certainly at the +2/die level of skill, so with ST 13-16 that means you're overall doing sw+4 cr. So, you're able to entangle, disarm at +2, and deal sw+4 cr damage to any foe up to 7 yards away. That's pretty serious, and a mere Perk to get away from the necessary 1-2 turns of Ready seems like too good of a deal to me. All that said, bows also have a requisite 2 turns to shoot - one to draw an arrow, and one to knock it. You can get away from this with Fast Draw (to get rid of the turn to draw) and Quick-Shooting (to get rid of the turn to knock), and it doesn't seem too bad to allow something similar for a whip. In this case, we'll allow for Fast-Draw (Whip) and let it count for the first Ready (this is all you need for a 2 yard whip). Quick-Whipping would then be two rolls against Whip-6 to first properly prepare the weapon, then strike with it. Weapon Master would halve the penalty, for Whip-3. In theory, you could also make a Heroic Archer variant for whips - I'd eyeball it at maybe [10], and it would halve the above penalty (characters with both this and Weapon Master would work at Whip-1), allow you to use Move and Attack (and its variants, Flying Attack and Acrobatic Attack) with the whip at no penalty, allows you to use the whip at Reach C with no issues, and halves any Fast-Draw (Whip).

McAllister · 10-29-2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varyon

... in a cinematic setting whips that lack that poor armor divisor should certainly be available.

A whip is essentially hitting someone with the end of a flexible ropelike bit that's got a handle attached. By the time you've put something on the end of it that's got the weight to punch through armor, I'd be telling you to roll against your skill with a flail. I think that's a lot to read into "a cinematic setting."

Also, to snap a neck, I do not believe it is conceivable to accomplish this by wrapping something flexible around it and pulling with human-level strength... it is traditional to both turn the head and hold the torso so that it does not also turn, yes? Once you've Entangled a neck, I think by pulling on the whip you can either choke the target or drag them to you, but I'm not seeing neck-snapping.

Gef · 10-29-2014, 04:30 PM

Indeed, Technical Grappling is a must have for the cinematic whipster.

Varyon · 10-29-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McAllister

A whip is essentially hitting someone with the end of a flexible ropelike bit that's got a handle attached. By the time you've put something on the end of it that's got the weight to punch through armor, I'd be telling you to roll against your skill with a flail. I think that's a lot to read into "a cinematic setting."

Also, to snap a neck, I do not believe it is conceivable to accomplish this by wrapping something flexible around it and pulling with human-level strength... it is traditional to both turn the head and hold the torso so that it does not also turn, yes? Once you've Entangled a neck, I think by pulling on the whip you can either choke the target or drag them to you, but I'm not seeing neck-snapping.

Clearly, we have different ideas of what's cinematic. In a cinematic setting, simply putting some heavy studs along the length of the whip (the whip is already like this, but the cinematic version would be moreso) is probably enough to get around the "this weapon sucks against armor" problem. After all, in cinematic settings swords routinely cut through armor like it wasn't there, despite swords being rather poor anti-armor weapons in reality.

As for snapping necks, having a whip wrap around someone's head (or neck) and then a sharp yank twisting their neck and causing it to break seems perfectly legitimate in a cinematic setting.

Beguiler · 10-29-2014, 04:42 PM

The Entangle (Whip) > Necksnap was a cinematic option suggested in a previous thread by P.K. for a whip style, so I think it's safe to waive realistic-ness of it. After all, this thread is discussing cinematic whip abilities. I do agree with keeping the divisor though... if you want to do silly amounts of damage, use Power Blow.

Also, a Whip "variant" of the Heroic Archer I think ought to just be the two Rule Exemption perks, along with the no Parry penalty, at [20], bought in addition of Weapon Master if desired since Heroic Archer can be bought in combination with Weapon Master too. The double roll to Whip skill at penalty to instantly have the whip ready in between attacks and parries, while matching what Heroic Archer does, but I don't think it has to be. It just feels like excessive die rolling when the part of the intent of the advantage is to just waive the required Ready maneuvers anyways.

10-29-2014, 04:03 PM	#1
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: Cinematic Whip Wielding? A Perk to get rid of the Parry U is probably about right (EDIT: You could go as high as [2], as Striking ST +2 (Only for Defensive Attacks that negate U -80%), but [1] sounds about right to me). Technically getting rid of the -2 would require Enhanced Parry 2 (Whip) [10], but because it's a built-in penalty I'd be comfortable with your Hard Technique approach (honestly, a Perk - akin to Exotic Weapon Training - wouldn't be outlandish here). All that said, a whip in a cinematic setting can be an extremely powerful weapon. It's sw-2(0.5) cr at a Reach of up to 7 yards (an archer is suffering -3 from Range there) by default. A cinematic whip wielder is going to always use the Crack technique, boosting that to sw(0.5), and in a cinematic setting whips that lack that poor armor divisor should certainly be available. With Weapon Master, you're almost certainly at the +2/die level of skill, so with ST 13-16 that means you're overall doing sw+4 cr. So, you're able to entangle, disarm at +2, and deal sw+4 cr damage to any foe up to 7 yards away. That's pretty serious, and a mere Perk to get away from the necessary 1-2 turns of Ready seems like too good of a deal to me. All that said, bows also have a requisite 2 turns to shoot - one to draw an arrow, and one to knock it. You can get away from this with Fast Draw (to get rid of the turn to draw) and Quick-Shooting (to get rid of the turn to knock), and it doesn't seem too bad to allow something similar for a whip. In this case, we'll allow for Fast-Draw (Whip) and let it count for the first Ready (this is all you need for a 2 yard whip). Quick-Whipping would then be two rolls against Whip-6 to first properly prepare the weapon, then strike with it. Weapon Master would halve the penalty, for Whip-3. In theory, you could also make a Heroic Archer variant for whips - I'd eyeball it at maybe [10], and it would halve the above penalty (characters with both this and Weapon Master would work at Whip-1), allow you to use Move and Attack (and its variants, Flying Attack and Acrobatic Attack) with the whip at no penalty, allows you to use the whip at Reach C with no issues, and halves any Fast-Draw (Whip). Last edited by Varyon; 10-29-2014 at 04:07 PM.

10-29-2014, 04:30 PM	#3
Gef Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Yucca Valley, CA	Re: Cinematic Whip Wielding? Indeed, Technical Grappling is a must have for the cinematic whipster.

10-29-2014, 04:42 PM	#5
Beguiler Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Where the wild things are.	Re: Cinematic Whip Wielding? The Entangle (Whip) > Necksnap was a cinematic option suggested in a previous thread by P.K. for a whip style, so I think it's safe to waive realistic-ness of it. After all, this thread is discussing cinematic whip abilities. I do agree with keeping the divisor though... if you want to do silly amounts of damage, use Power Blow. Also, a Whip "variant" of the Heroic Archer I think ought to just be the two Rule Exemption perks, along with the no Parry penalty, at [20], bought in addition of Weapon Master if desired since Heroic Archer can be bought in combination with Weapon Master too. The double roll to Whip skill at penalty to instantly have the whip ready in between attacks and parries, while matching what Heroic Archer does, but I don't think it has to be. It just feels like excessive die rolling when the part of the intent of the advantage is to just waive the required Ready maneuvers anyways.