DF: Armor Layering and Enchantments

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Does it? I don't think it should. I mean, I think it should, but given the interaction with meteoric iron...

Don't change Fortify because meteoric iron is weird!

Meteoric iron isn't a portable no-mana zone but rather a strange material that's immune to magic that aims to affect it. If it were a character, it would have Static (Magic), not Mana Damper. As the rules state, Static interferes only with attempts to affect you or your personal equipment directly. It most definitely doesn't let you punch through enemy DR that relies on the affected power source . . . because that doesn't affect you directly. Thus, Fortify works fine against meteoric iron.

As a broad rule, anything that just protects someone else doesn't affect you directly and can't be circumvented by abilities, like Static, that can bypass the power providing the protection. Anything that defends the subject by taking control of, reversing, or annihilating incoming attacks doesn't just protect the subject; that person might still get DR from those abilities, but if you have Static that negates the underlying power, it shields you from those abilities' noxious effects on you.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yep. There's no debating what happens to Fortify in a no-mana area. From Mana (Magic, p. 6): "Enchantments and permanent magic effects are suspended and do not function while within a no-mana zone, but resume when taken to an area with mana." Fortify is just another enchantment.

I don't see how that's different from the anti-magic weapon. Why is ignoring the bonus when attacked by anti-magic weapons too much work, but ignoring the bonus when attacked in no mana zone isn't?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Don't change Fortify because meteoric iron is weird!

Meteoric iron isn't a portable no-mana zone but rather a strange material that's immune to magic that aims to affect it. If it were a character, it would have Static (Magic), not Mana Damper. As the rules state, Static interferes only with attempts to affect you or your personal equipment directly. It most definitely doesn't let you punch through enemy DR that relies on the affected power source . . . because that doesn't affect you directly. Thus, Fortify works fine against meteoric iron.

As a broad rule, anything that just protects someone else doesn't affect you directly and can't be circumvented by abilities, like Static, that can bypass the power providing the protection. Anything that defends the subject by taking control of, reversing, or annihilating incoming attacks doesn't just protect the subject; that person might still get DR from those abilities, but if you have Static that negates the underlying power, it shields you from those abilities' noxious effects on you.

So meteoric iron has no effect on defensive spells at all, unless they hurt the weapon?

[Kalzazz]

A boomerang would still laugh at reverse missiles though or no?

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

A boomerang would still laugh at reverse missiles though or no?

Reverse Missiles, Missile Shield, Deflect Missile and Return Missile all try to affect the missile in some way: push it aside a bit in midair or send it back. If the weapon is meteoric, you can't affect it with any of these spells.
But Armor doesn't affect the weapon, it affects you: it gives you DR. Fortify gives your armor/clothing additional DR. If you have Haste on, you can Dodge an attack from a meteoric weapon and claim the bonus, because you're not trying to affect the weapon. Same idea with Armor and Fortify.

[Kalzazz]

What about the Deflect enchant for armor?

[the_matrix_walker]

Deflect discounted for a hit location only protects that hit location.

Full cost Deflect on Armor, Deflect on a Shield, and Deflect on a weapon are cumulative (unless Kromm is reversing his position there). Only one Armor Deflect applies at a time, so if your full suit has Deflect 1 and your helmet has Deflect 2, your body has DB+1 and head has total DB+2.

On any given defense, you can benefit from Deflect from a single weapon, a single shield, and a single armor enchantment.

So if you have a medium shield (DB2) with Deflect 2, you have total DB 4.
If you add Deflect 2 to your armor, you now have another +2 for DB 6.
And if you add Deflect 2 to your sword, you now have another +2 for DB 8.

[Kalzazz]

How does Deflect interact with Meteoric?

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by RobKamm

There is a small benefit to getting the lower layers enchanted that I've considered in theory, but have never seen come up in play. That is that it may be possible for the outer layer (presumably with the heavier enchantment) to be penetrated five times and lose it's enchantment.

Don't forget that it's 5 times per natural/base DR of the armor. The numerous examples of the T-Shirt warrior point out that they only get 5 penetrations before losing enchantment, but Fortify on TL9 DR40 armor would keep its enchantment for 200 penetrations.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

How does Deflect interact with Meteoric?

I don't see any difference from Armor, Shield, or Fortify here. It's a bonus to the target's defenses, not any direct effect on the weapon.