Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons

Kromm · 10-23-2014, 03:53 PM

Is it a dungeon
When people outside break through
Doors to keep them out?
— A philosophical orc

Though there are curmudgeons who would deny it, most gamers like the occasional game session – or even entire campaign – of hacking and slashing and looting with no goals beyond improving their gear and abilities in order to better undertake riskier pillaging expeditions that promise even greater rewards. That's the essence of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy. Still, it is true that this gets a little repetitive after a while. That's why it's important to change things up!

Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons does exactly that. The latest issue of Pyramid alters the usual hack 'n' slash assumptions in ways that reinvent GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and the dungeon-crawl genre in general.

Sean Punch's Pointless Slaying and Looting does this by eliminating character points, long skill lists, and munchin-y optimization. The resulting character-creation system lets you use GURPS almost as written – almost – but with an emphasis on the dramatic deeds of archetypal heroes instead of on bookkeeping.
Although most dungeon fantasy can be traced to tropes from early 20th-century fantasy, it's surprisingly easy to shift it over to science fiction from the same period. In Dungeons of Mars, Phil Masters shows how to adapt the "planetary romance" genre to dungeon crawls. Explore worlds like Krishna, Tschai, Urth, and the titular Mars with only your sword and wits to protect you!
Monsters want to have fun, too! And with Matt Riggsby's help, they can explore a dungeon From the Bottom Up. Use the eight new racial templates (or are they character templates? The categories blur . . .) to create "delvers" who are native to the area. Blobs and dragons work with cave-ape barbarians and scorpiman skirmishers to defeat invading humans and battle their way up to the terrifying light of day.
How many undead-haunted tombs and caves full of ogres can a party raid before boredom sets in? When the bad guys aren't doing it for your group any more, it's time to raid some Good Dungeons. In this month's Eidetic Memory, David Pulver describes six types of dungeons often occupied by the morally just, along with several reasons (or justifications) for breaking in and taking their stuff.
It's easy to see digital and tabletop RPGs as competitors, but can you merge the best of both into Dungeon Fantasy Video Gaming? Christopher Rice thinks so, and provides rules for common tropes – including a "job system"-based character template for PCs who can learn to do anything, mini-maps, spawn points, essence drops, and more. Put down that controller, pick up your dice, and load your latest save file!
And deep within the final level, behind the now-slain boss (sorry, Steven!), you find 2d6 magic items and a Random Thought Table that explores the three basic ways to modify a genre like dungeon fantasy.

— PK & Kromm

Christopher R. Rice · 10-23-2014, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

It's easy to see digital and tabletop RPGs as competitors, but can you merge the best of both into Dungeon Fantasy Video Gaming? Christopher Rice thinks so, and provides rules for common tropes – including a "job system"-based character template for PCs who can learn to do anything, mini-maps, spawn points, essence drops, and more. Put down that controller, pick up your dice, and load your latest save file!

I also posted some Designer's Notes over on my blog with some outtakes and half-explored ideas for Dungeon Fantasy Video Gaming.

Turhan's Bey Company · 10-23-2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Although most dungeon fantasy can be traced to tropes from early 20th-century fantasy, it's surprisingly easy to shift it over to science fiction from the same period. In Dungeons of Mars, Phil Masters shows how to adapt the "planetary romance" genre to dungeon crawls. Explore worlds like Krishna, Tschai, Urth, and the titular Mars with only your sword and wits to protect you!

I liked this a lot. More planetary romance, please.

Christopher R. Rice · 10-23-2014, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I liked this a lot. More planetary romance, please.

Funny you should say that - I just finished a Barsoom-filed-with-serial-numbers-off article for Space Atlas.

OldSam · 10-23-2014, 04:32 PM

@Kromm: Many thanks for "Pointless Slaying and Looting"!

I am really, really happy that you released a cool quick character creation system like that, it will help a lot with spontaneous, 'casual' gaming sessions.

Also finally we have an "official counter" against the critics refusing GURPS because of the complex character build process that takes its time :-P

Kromm · 10-23-2014, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSam

@Kromm: Many thanks for "Pointless Slaying and Looting"!

I am really, really happy that you released a cool quick character creation system like that, it will help a lot with spontaneous, 'casual' gaming sessions.

Also finally we have an "official counter" against the critics refusing GURPS because of the complex character build process that takes its time :-P

Let me know how it works out for you!

sir_pudding · 10-23-2014, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I liked this a lot. More planetary romance, please.

I have a half-finished article for this issue that covered planetary romance games too, but it vanished from the Wishlist before I was done with it.

PK · 10-24-2014, 03:22 AM

It's no secret that I'm a really big fan of the "bare-bones 'template' plus a selection of X-point packages" method for character building. Done well, it allows far more variety and customization than a standard template, but with even fewer tricky choices and questions that can confuse newbies.

I've been musing on whether, if and when we do another worked-genre series, if it might be worth spending a full chapter or two setting up a simple package system in the vein of "Pointless Slaying and Looting." Yes, it'd take up space, but then in the next chapter you can take advantage of it to make actual character creation insanely short and simple. Instead of a full template, you'd just do:

Cleric
250 points

Insert description of a cleric here blah blah worship is good undead are bad follow my god or I'll smite thee.

--------Basic Template: Brainy or Versatile.
--------Abilities: Take Theurgy* and six other abilities, at least three of which must be chosen from Blessed (any), Blessing, Combat Medic, Conjured Companion*, Detect Evil*, Dismissive Wave, Fearless*, Foe of Evil, Lay on Hands*, Medium, Spirit Empathy, Theurgic Energy*, or Turn Undead*. Those marked with * count as two choices.
--------Heroic Flaws: Take either Religious or Saintly, and four more of your choice.
--------Wildcards: Choose 10, which must include Faith!, Healer!, at least one clerical Magical College!, and at least one combat skill.

It's probably too huge a change from standard GURPS to fly, but I wonder if it might not be the difference that let us make the jump to a true grab-n-go, totally newbie-friendly approach.

(Disclaimer: All of this said with no official hat on, and also in the context of PK groggily rambling at 4 a.m.)

Mailanka · 10-24-2014, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I also posted some Designer's Notes over on my blog with some outtakes and half-explored ideas for Dungeon Fantasy Video Gaming.

Did you write that article (I so seldom look at the author's names). That was definitely my favorite of the set, because it gave me a load of ideas of how to wink and nod and put Final Fantasy into GURPS DF.

As though I wasn't already pressed enough to ditch all other incarnations of F20 games.

korbeau · 10-24-2014, 08:46 AM

Can't stop dropping tears of joy about Imitator "job system" a la Final Fantasy. All the article about Video gaming is a pure delight... well anything about FF is a pure delight... ^^

10-23-2014, 03:53 PM	#1
Kromm *GURPS* Line Editor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons Is it a dungeon When people outside break through Doors to keep them out? — A philosophical orc Though there are curmudgeons who would deny it, most gamers like the occasional game session – or even entire campaign – of hacking and slashing and looting with no goals beyond improving their gear and abilities in order to better undertake riskier pillaging expeditions that promise even greater rewards. That's the essence of *GURPS Dungeon Fantasy. Still, it is true that this gets a little repetitive after a while. That's why it's important to change things up! Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons* does exactly that. The latest issue of Pyramid alters the usual hack 'n' slash assumptions in ways that reinvent *GURPS Dungeon Fantasy* and the dungeon-crawl genre in general. Sean Punch's Pointless Slaying and Looting does this by eliminating character points, long skill lists, and munchin-y optimization. The resulting character-creation system lets you use *GURPS* almost as written – almost – but with an emphasis on the dramatic deeds of archetypal heroes instead of on bookkeeping. Although most dungeon fantasy can be traced to tropes from early 20th-century fantasy, it's surprisingly easy to shift it over to science fiction from the same period. In Dungeons of Mars, Phil Masters shows how to adapt the "planetary romance" genre to dungeon crawls. Explore worlds like Krishna, Tschai, Urth, and the titular Mars with only your sword and wits to protect you! Monsters want to have fun, too! And with Matt Riggsby's help, they can explore a dungeon From the Bottom Up. Use the eight new racial templates (or are they character templates? The categories blur . . .) to create "delvers" who are native to the area. Blobs and dragons work with cave-ape barbarians and scorpiman skirmishers to defeat invading humans and battle their way up to the terrifying light of day. How many undead-haunted tombs and caves full of ogres can a party raid before boredom sets in? When the bad guys aren't doing it for your group any more, it's time to raid some Good Dungeons. In this month's Eidetic Memory, David Pulver describes six types of dungeons often occupied by the morally just, along with several reasons (or justifications) for breaking in and taking their stuff. It's easy to see digital and tabletop RPGs as competitors, but can you merge the best of both into Dungeon Fantasy Video Gaming? Christopher Rice thinks so, and provides rules for common tropes – including a "job system"-based character template for PCs who can learn to do anything, mini-maps, spawn points, essence drops, and more. Put down that controller, pick up your dice, and load your latest save file! And deep within the final level, behind the now-slain boss (sorry, Steven!), you find 2d6 magic items and a Random Thought Table that explores the three basic ways to modify a genre like dungeon fantasy. — PK & Kromm __________________ Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> *GURPS* Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just *GURPS* News]

10-23-2014, 04:32 PM	#5
OldSam Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Göttingen, Germany	Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons @Kromm: Many thanks for "Pointless Slaying and Looting"! I am really, really happy that you released a cool quick character creation system like that, it will help a lot with spontaneous, 'casual' gaming sessions. Also finally we have an "official counter" against the critics refusing GURPS because of the complex character build process that takes its time :-P

10-24-2014, 03:22 AM	#8
PK Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum	Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons It's no secret that I'm a really big fan of the "bare-bones 'template' plus a selection of X-point packages" method for character building. Done well, it allows far more variety and customization than a standard template, but with even fewer tricky choices and questions that can confuse newbies. I've been musing on whether, if and when we do another worked-genre series, if it might be worth spending a full chapter or two setting up a simple package system in the vein of "Pointless Slaying and Looting." Yes, it'd take up space, but then in the next chapter you can take advantage of it to make actual character creation insanely short and simple. Instead of a full template, you'd just do: Cleric 250 points Insert description of a cleric here blah blah worship is good undead are bad follow my god or I'll smite thee. --------Basic Template: Brainy or Versatile. --------Abilities: Take Theurgy* and six other abilities, at least three of which must be chosen from Blessed (any), Blessing, Combat Medic, Conjured Companion, Detect Evil, Dismissive Wave, Fearless, Foe of Evil, Lay on Hands, Medium, Spirit Empathy, Theurgic Energy, or Turn Undead. Those marked with * count as two choices. --------Heroic Flaws: Take either Religious or Saintly, and four more of your choice. --------Wildcards: Choose 10, which must include Faith!, Healer!, at least one clerical Magical College!, and at least one combat skill. It's probably too huge a change from standard *GURPS* to fly, but I wonder if it might not be the difference that let us make the jump to a true grab-n-go, totally newbie-friendly approach. (Disclaimer: All of this said with no official hat on, and also in the context of PK groggily rambling at 4 a.m.) __________________ Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ) MyGURPS: My house rules and *GURPS* resources. #SJGamesLive: I answered questions about *GURPS After the End* and more! {Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}

10-24-2014, 08:46 AM	#10
korbeau Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St-Basile-Le-Grand, Qc	Re: Pyramid #3/72: Alternate Dungeons Can't stop dropping tears of joy about Imitator "job system" a la Final Fantasy. All the article about Video gaming is a pure delight... well anything about FF is a pure delight... ^^

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