[LT] No-steel-pocalypse! Lifespan of iron & steel equipment?

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

If not, corrosion is dependent on environmental factors, meaning those living in deserts will have steel much longer than those near the sea.

Which could have a noticable impact on ships and long distance sailing. If ship construction is similar to real world TL3-4, there should be a decent amount of nails being used to hold them together. This would make sea travel more expensive and dangerous, do you really want to risk a week or two on a ship that may not have been properly maintained? Or do you go with an unproven concept that may fall apart in a strong breeze? Or can you reach your destination by land, even if that would take longer than by ship?

At least until some non-iron/steel using way of building long distance cargo holding ships has been discovered. But until then, most trade and travel will probably be across land with shorter trips to cross unavoidable water.

Any civilization that relies heavily on sailing could easily fall apart entirely.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

If ship construction is similar to real world TL3-4, there should be a decent amount of nails being used to hold them together.

At Earth TL 3-4, it was common to use copper nails or wooden pegs ("treenails") simply because iron or steel nails corrode so fast in seawater. I haven't seen anything in this thread to indicate that the culture has stainless steel or other means of comprehensively protecting steel from corrosion.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Eh, there's decent evidence of trans-Atlantic travel well before steel became a thing. Non-iron nails can do their job with a decent amount of corrosion, but, iron swords and armor will become useless in short order.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I'm saying that it's unlikely that the shipyards still have the knowledge to make decent ships without iron nails. Or are willing to experiment with "inferior" materials for long distance sailing. It's quite possible that some enterprising soul manages to make a push for non-iron nails, but it will meet resistance while iron nails are still available. Even if no new ones are made, there'll still be people clinging to the iron ways for several decades. "We know they're going to make some new iron soon, just give them a bit of time" and "We're about to close a deal for some iron, just hang in there" will likely be common.

Originally Posted by johndallman

At Earth TL 3-4, it was common to use copper nails or wooden pegs ("treenails") simply because iron or steel nails corrode so fast in seawater. I haven't seen anything in this thread to indicate that the culture has stainless steel or other means of comprehensively protecting steel from corrosion.

The various sources I've been able to look up suggest that iron was the primary metal used for ship building even back then. They may of course be wrong, and if so my assertations could be so as well.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I'm saying that it's unlikely that the shipyards still have the knowledge to make decent ships without iron nails. Or are willing to experiment with "inferior" materials for long distance sailing. It's quite possible that some enterprising soul manages to make a push for non-iron nails, but it will meet resistance while iron nails are still available. Even if no new ones are made, there'll still be people clinging to the iron ways for several decades. "We know they're going to make some new iron soon, just give them a bit of time" and "We're about to close a deal for some iron, just hang in there" will likely be common.

Even if shipyards run by the military and their contractors don't have knowledge to make ships without iron, it will always be cheaper for civilians to make do without metals. After all, rope and wood is all you need to make a sea-faring vessel! Of course, some sort of sail makes things much easier, but, doesn't require metals.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Even if shipyards run by the military and their contractors don't have knowledge to make ships without iron, it will always be cheaper for civilians to make do without metals. After all, rope and wood is all you need to make a sea-faring vessel! Of course, some sort of sail makes things much easier, but, doesn't require metals.

Iron is going to be cheap in this setting (until the gift goes away). It will melt in the smelting furnace and form a puddle under the slag, so the fuel and labour of forging the slag out of the refinery bloom, all the work that gave wrought iron its name, will be saved. Also, it will be far easier and cheaper to shape: nails could be made by thousands in a cheap, reusable open mould rather than by tediously hand-making each one.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Iron is going to be cheap in this setting (until the gift goes away). It will melt in the smelting furnace and form a puddle under the slag, so the fuel and labour of forging the slag out of the refinery bloom, all the work that gave wrought iron its name, will be saved. Also, it will be far easier and cheaper to shape: nails could be made by thousands in a cheap, reusable open mould rather than by tediously hand-making each one.

And all theories posted about ships and such are based on what happens AFTER iron stops being cheap, and giving time for iron-clad ships to rust into oblivion ;)

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

And all theories posted about ships and such are based on what happens AFTER iron stops being cheap, and giving time for iron-clad ships to rust into oblivion ;)

Iron-clad ships? The OP said TL4.

Did you know that HMS Warrior, launched in 1860, is still afloat?

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by johndallman

At Earth TL 3-4, it was common to use copper nails or wooden pegs ("treenails") simply because iron or steel nails corrode so fast in seawater.

I have a Seventeenth-Century table than is held together with trenails.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Which could have a noticable impact on ships and long distance sailing. If ship construction is similar to real world TL3-4, there should be a decent amount of nails being used to hold them together. This would make sea travel more expensive and dangerous, do you really want to risk a week or two on a ship that may not have been properly maintained? Or do you go with an unproven concept that may fall apart in a strong breeze? Or can you reach your destination by land, even if that would take longer than by ship?

At least until some non-iron/steel using way of building long distance cargo holding ships has been discovered. But until then, most trade and travel will probably be across land with shorter trips to cross unavoidable water.

Any civilization that relies heavily on sailing could easily fall apart entirely.

Eh, there's decent evidence of trans-Atlantic travel well before steel became a thing. Non-iron nails can do their job with a decent amount of corrosion, but, iron swords and armor will become useless in short order.

[PseudoFenton]

So in the last thousand years, noone has developed better furnaces? Despite knowing what hotter temperatures could do when working iron? Especially when there are seemingly rival cultures who didn't receive such a boon?

It seems likely that the power exchange simply moves to the few who have bothered to find alternative methods for iron/steel working (remember, that they would've have the benefit of steel tools and goods to this this, and a good knowledge of the medium, which makes things a lot easier). Or that alternatives are very quickly financed in an attempt to recapture what has been lost.