[RPM] Questions - Mana Enhancer, Stacking Dispel, Spell Chains, Item Cost

[Lia Valenth]

So, in summery,
1. Mana Enhancer- just do not allow it.
2. Using larger spells to knock out smaller ones just shifts the defense from the opposed Path check to the targets resistance.
3. This works for gates. However,

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

As for complex objects - regardless of where the material comes from if it's a manufactured good it needs to have a roll to create it. It says as much on p. 16 of GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic.

But on p. 16, under why Transform costs more than Create, "In addition, Transform effects that produce manufactured goods do not require the craft roll described under Create(above) if the original item was sufficiently similar". It seems like using Lesser Create Matter to make a simple gun-shaped metal block and Lesser Transform Matter to make that into a real gun would be right in theme, especially as that is so close to the example given, "but using it to turn a toy pistol into a real one would not (need a roll)".

Of course where you get bullets is still a question in that example, but not directly related.

As for 4. I am planning to just use the Slow and Sure Enchanting (RPM p. 34-35) and put a price on it.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Lia Valenth

So, in summery,
1. Mana Enhancer- just do not allow it.
2. Using larger spells to knock out smaller ones just shifts the defense from the opposed Path check to the targets resistance.
3. This works for gates. However,


But on p. 16, under why Transform costs more than Create, "In addition, Transform effects that produce manufactured goods do not require the craft roll described under Create(above) if the original item was sufficiently similar". It seems like using Lesser Create Matter to make a simple gun-shaped metal block and Lesser Transform Matter to make that into a real gun would be right in theme, especially as that is so close to the example given, "but using it to turn a toy pistol into a real one would not (need a roll)".

Of course where you get bullets is still a question in that example, but not directly related.

Right, but that's a Transform effect. I suppose you could say "I'm shaping this lump of clay into something like a gun and then Transform it - but as a GM I'd still require you to make a skill roll of some type to make it functional. The exception of course would be objects that already look like what you are trying to turn them into, like that toy pistol. Of course, if you as a GM decide that you don't need to roll a skill to create something then you don't. Awesome. Tell us how it works out for you. But by RAW - you should be allowed to violate the rules by doing some clever accounting - unless your GM says otherwise anyways.

Originally Posted by Lia Valenth

As for 4. I am planning to just use the Slow and Sure Enchanting (RPM p. 34-35) and put a price on it.

The rules I presented use the Slow and Sure Enchanting method - you just get the framework for them already in place. You know how much it costs, what it weighs, and so on.

[Lia Valenth]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

The rules I presented use the Slow and Sure Enchanting method - you just get the framework for them already in place. You know how much it costs, what it weighs, and so on.

Mk, I do not have Pyramid #3/46: Weird Science, and at the moment if I were to buy a book it would have to be the new How to Be a GURPS GM, so I will have to put that on the to-get list when I has more to spend.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Lia Valenth

Mk, I do not have Pyramid #3/46: Weird Science, and at the moment if I were to buy a book it would have to be the new How to Be a GURPS GM, so I will have to put that on the to-get list when I has more to spend.

Mook's book is quite good. :-) If you want magical items to be more permenant and plentiful, I suggest making each point cost the same as about half of what it costs for Spending Points for Money (usually 10% of starting wealth, so 20% of Starting Wealth) and then going from there. If you want less plentiful items make each point equivelent to 10% or even 5%. Adjust the scale from there. For something like DF or D&D where there are a ton of magical googads maybe make each point the item costs worth 5% or even 1% - of course, going that low you might end up with items cheaper than charms (depending on skill level at least). I'd probably go something like 2.5% myself for somewhere where everyone has a +1 ring of protection or the like. That's a 40-point magical item for a a full multiple of your starting wealth

[Kalzazz]

I really like the idea of a 10 point item costing more than two 5 point ones, so I would avoid using the Signature Gear / Trading Points for cash route of CP conversion

I would potentially go some variant of it off 1 use wealth maybe

So, if

2 points gets 1x extra starting wealth (1000 at 3e)
4 for 4000
6 for 19000
10 for 99000
15 for 990000 etc

So, say, a 5 point charm would retail for between 4000 and 19000 at TL 3, Id go with averaging the two for something thats in between perhaps

Modify by a percentage or whatnot to taste

[Lia Valenth]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Right, but that's a Transform effect. I suppose you could say "I'm shaping this lump of clay into something like a gun and then Transform it - but as a GM I'd still require you to make a skill roll of some type to make it functional. The exception of course would be objects that already look like what you are trying to turn them into, like that toy pistol...

I went back and reread the book, and your right it would need a craft check, this is my mistake. I am going to rule that, for the example if you want a Luxury Car at TL 8 ($30,000), you can either use;

Greater Create Matter followed by an Engineering (automobile)-8 check to make it correctly
Or
Lesser Create Matter followed by an Engineer (automobile) -4 (create a metal chunk with rubber wheels that looks like a car) and then a Lesser Transform Matter with no check to turn it into a car.

The first one requires a single casting with a high energy cost and a very difficult Engineering check, while the second one requires two prepared spells, but has an easier check and much lower energy cost for both spells.

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

I really like the idea of a 10 point item costing more than two 5 point ones, so I would avoid using the Signature Gear / Trading Points for cash route of CP conversion

As do I, a linear $X for Y CP has always been a problem IMO because I do not see five 10 point traits as being worth the same as a single 50 point trait most of the time.

I do like (CP^2)*(% of starting wealth) as it is easy, every time you double the CP of the item you quadruple the price. Just have to choose that % of starting wealth. I decided to go with a more complicated option after what Ghostdancer pointed out, I want 1-5pt items to common, 10-20pt to be uncommon, 50pt ones to be rare and 100+pt ones to be Legendary.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Lia Valenth

I went back and reread the book, and your right it would need a craft check, this is my mistake. I am going to rule that, for the example if you want a Luxury Car at TL 8 ($30,000), you can either use;

Greater Create Matter followed by an Engineering (automobile)-8 check to make it correctly
Or
Lesser Create Matter followed by an Engineer (automobile) -4 (create a metal chunk with rubber wheels that looks like a car) and then a Lesser Transform Matter with no check to turn it into a car.

The first one requires a single casting with a high energy cost and a very difficult Engineering check, while the second one requires two prepared spells, but has an easier check and much lower energy cost for both spells.

Cool! Let us know how it works - I'm always keen to see variations of the system (especially ones I've not tried myself - and I've tried a LOT). :-)

Originally Posted by Lia Valenth

As do I, a linear $X for Y CP has always been a problem IMO because I do not see five 10 point traits as being worth the same as a single 50 point trait most of the time.

I do like (CP^2)*(% of starting wealth) as it is easy, every time you double the CP of the item you quadruple the price. Just have to choose that % of starting wealth. I decided to go with a more complicated option after what Ghostdancer pointed out, I want 1-5pt items to common, 10-20pt to be uncommon, 50pt ones to be rare and 100+pt ones to be Legendary.

Keep in mind that if you are allowing people to purchase the same traits you can buy with magical items you're going to get people buying those traits as personal abilities that can't be stolen rather than enchanted knickknacks.

[Kalzazz]

I haven't actually tried to use RPM items for sale yet, I've pretty much said 'All enchanted items are Magic Magic', and banned RPM enchanting stone cold. I like the idea of Metatronic Generators actually, but, I just haven't really gotten into it as Magic Magic items seem to work fine, and I already have hacked together pricing rules for Magic Magic items which are based on throwing a huge pile of setting assumptions into an Excel spreadsheet and using Solver and calling it a day