GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?

[PK]

I just got back from my store liaison visit, in which I had a really interesting conversation with the guys there, that I felt was worth sharing.

We were discussion how the SJG card games (Munchkin, Ninja Burger, etc.) sold really well there, but GURPS didn't. In fact, the manager went over his list of the RPG books that sold in the double-digits last year, and GURPS wasn't on there. Predictably, they were almost all D&D books, with a handful of Shadowrun and (oddly) the new Mage game.

So we started talking about why they thought that was, and both of them were quite sure that one of the reasons is that the GURPS books, "though they've improved, just can't compete visually with most of the D&D books. They're not as attractive, and when I see people making the decision to buy, a major factor is how the book looks."

He handed me the new Book of Thrones d20 game (from GoO) and had me flip through it. I was impressed. Every single page made use of full color backgrounds and patterns, but not in a way that obscured the text. There were plenty of boxes and such to break up the text flow, and every few dozen pages, there'd be a full, two-page spread of artwork (some of it very nice, some average, but none was poorly done). I handed it back, and he continued, "People are picking up this book, flipping through it, and buying it on the style points alone. The fact that they already know d20 helps, of course, but the GURPS books just don't grab anyone. The new books look better than the old edition, sure, but they're still boring and the little bit of art that there is isn't that great."

Considering the number of people that rallied against the changes SJG made for 4E, I thought this was a really interesting point of view. This guy sees what people are buying and has a chance to find out why they're buying it, and if he's right, it seems like SJG might not have gone far enough in trying to improve the look of their products. Even now, flipping through Powers, while there are several decent pieces of art, a lot of it is just straight Poser and some is just horrible (like the fire-breathing Jesus on p. 26).

Is this having an effect on sales? According to one FLGS, the answer is a definite yes. Old-school GURPS fans might not mind a book with no (or bad) art as long as it's crammed with useful text, but any product lives on new blood -- the maxim of the business world is "grow or die". Does GURPS need to get more attractive?

EDIT: Please note that this thread is not intended to complain about quality (artwork or otherwise) of the GURPS books, but instead to discuss whether or not he was right about the direction that GURPS needs to head in. Is presentation as important (or even more important) in a gaming book as content?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

He handed me the new Book of Thrones d20 game (from GoO) and had me flip through it. I was impressed. Every single page made use of full color backgrounds and patterns, but not in a way that obscured the text. There were plenty of boxes and such to break up the text flow, and every few dozen pages, there'd be a full, two-page spread of artwork (some of it very nice, some average, but none was poorly done). I handed it back, and he continued, "People are picking up this book, flipping through it, and buying it on the style points alone. The fact that they already know d20 helps, of course, but the GURPS books just don't grab anyone. The new books look better than the old edition, sure, but they're still boring and the little bit of art that there is isn't that great."

The fact that Game of Thrones is a multi-million dollar bestseller doesn't have anything to do with it?

[Qoltar]

I work at a Game Store.

...and try to "push" GURPS (MIB wannabe)

But yeah the artwork look of the books could use a lot of help.

Hell, even bringing back Dan Smith - but doing his stuff in color could help a whole bunch. The Color stuff he did for Illuminati had tons of personality. Honestly , a lot of the 4th edition artwork feels FLAT when compared to other game books on our shelves.

- Edmund W. Charlton
"Qoltar"

[Luther]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

Is this having an effect on sales? According to one FLGS, the answer is a definite yes. Old-school GURPS fans might not mind a book with no (or bad) art as long as it's crammed with useful text, but any product lives on new blood -- the maxim of the business world is "grow or die". Does GURPS need to get more attractive?

I don't know. I don't know if investing (lots of) resources in artwork and presentation would really help GURPS from a commercial point of view. It surely would improve it's visual quality, but I really have mixed feelings about the overall impact.

Yes, GURPS art is mostly meh. I, for one, have not bought the GM Screen because it's so ugly.

However would improving the quality of art beyond average increase profit?

[Hex]

This issue doesn't really matter to those who are already sold on GURPS. There have been grumblings about the quality of the artwork in the 4e line and justifiably so. I do think that the visual presentation of books are a selling point. Anyone who doesn't think so is a fool. Even when I peruse my local book store...often it is the cover that attracts me to pick it up and read the back cover. I don't see why this would change just because its an rpg.

I can only imagine how many sales have been lost because GURPS 4e just doesn't compete that well with the impulse buyer...

[Luther]

Originally Posted by Hex

often it is the cover that attracts me to pick it up

Did you remember the original 4e covers? :rolleyes:

[Hex]

Originally Posted by Luther

Did you remember the original 4e covers? :rolleyes:

No Luther, I had successfully scrubbed those memories from my mind...until... NOW!!!!!!!

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Luther

However would improving the quality of art beyond average increase profit?

This is the key question, of course, and one which I am not qualified to answer authoritatively. My instinct tells me no.

But I turn a deaf ear... What does IT know?
;)

[Chris Aylott]

We're always working on improving our art, and would be doing so even if it were being created by Leonardo, Michelangelo, Raphael, and Donatello (not the turtles).

My personal feeling is that what we're doing right now is pretty good, with occasional flashes of great. When we get up to "gob-smackingly great" on almost every page, then I'm going to be almost satisfied.

best wishes,

[DreadDomain]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

Is this having an effect on sales? According to one FLGS, the answer is a definite yes. Old-school GURPS fans might not mind a book with no (or bad) art as long as it's crammed with useful text, but any product lives on new blood -- the maxim of the business world is "grow or die". Does GURPS need to get more attractive?

I really didn't like the look of the new edition at first. I found the three-columns layout annoying, the colored borders just boring and the overall art unattractive. In short, I thought it lacked character and mood. I was even more disappointed my Banestorm. Even though the art was generally better then in the Basic Set, I thought it was even worst to endure the boring borders for a setting book. A fantasy book could have been much more interesting (visually) with texture and fancy borders (and a good continental map but that is another story).

Still, the look grew on me. I finally like how it looks. Sure I still believe the art could be improved a lot and the style of the borders could be personalized depending on the type of book (fantasy or super or science-fiction).

So I guess yes, the visual could be improved in a way that would help sales. I was sold to GURPS from the get go so even if I strongly disliked the look I bought it and gave it enough time so it could grow on me.

Someone else, not knowing GURPS, might not give it the same chance.