"Before Combat Begins"

[felwred]

Ran into a strange rules question that is undefined. We're playing a game of original munchkin. Player X kicks the door and encounters a monster where it has the phrase "before combat begins, discard an item in play." Player X has no items out so no problem there. Being an evil bastard, I see the opportunity to play the potion of Transferral to move the combat from player X to player Y (because player Y has the kneepads of allure as his only item and it was an easy way to get rid of them). Alas, the argument ensues...

When the transferral potion was played, Player Y had to fight the monster but argued that the "before combat" didn't apply since the "before combat" was with the other player and he only inherited a combat and wouldn't therein lose his item.

So - it raises the question. When is "before combat?" It has to be after the door is kicked otherwise no combat is possible. However, when you kick the door - the effects of the door are immediate (you can't change classes, equip or unequip items, etc after drawing). In this case, is player Y exposed to the "before combat" effects and, if so, why?

Thanks!

Fred

[Bubbles21112]

Player Y would not discard their item as the combat already started with player X

[DRaider_GR]

The monster you say is Tongue Demon and i think that the new player facing the monster must discard an item too, because it's a "new fight" starting. You wouldn't discard if you come in fight as helper or if that monster comes in fight as a Wandering Monster or Mate.

[Mister Ed]

IS it a new fight starting, though? Or is it an existing combat being transferred after it starts?

I dunno. The card, to me, sounds like the latter, which would suggest that stuff that happens "before the combat" wouldn't happen again. But I could see it going the other way, if TPTB say that was the intent. After all, "before combat" is kind of problematic terminology in the first place, as my understanding is that combat begins the instant you kick down the door and find a Monster. By the time you've even read the card text about "before combat" effects, the combat has technically started already, in the sense that it is already too late to take any actions that cannot be taken while in combat.

[Zero]

Originally Posted by DRaider_GR

The monster you say is Tongue Demon and i think that the new player facing the monster must discard an item too, because it's a "new fight" starting.

I would have to agree. For him it is a new fight and he would lose his item. Alas we must have the final word from the munchkin gods. Andrew!!!

[MunchkinMan]

I'm inclined to agree that this is a new combat for the player who received the transferred combat. Inclined, not sold, since these effects don't apply to helpers, so I want to discuss this with Andrew.

[felwred]

Thanks for looking into it. Both sides have really legitimate arguments. Personally (since I'm the one who played the scenario in order to get rid of another player having the kneepads) I think it has to be a new combat thereby all "before combat" rules would apply.

Fred

[kotya]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

I'm inclined to agree that this is a new combat for the player who received the transferred combat.

but the text of Transferral potion does not actually say that it starts a new combat, so it looks like just a combat owner change.

[Andrew Hackard]

Nothing on the Transferral Potion card says anything about rebooting the combat, so it shifts the fight to the new player as it stands at that moment. No "before combat" effects happen at that time.