[RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)

[ronalmb]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

One thing you may want to take a look at is where the divide between Lesser and Greater effects is within your campaign world. If it's a setting similar to D&D, then perhaps even obvious spells like Fireball, Invisibility and Flight only require Lesser Effects (reserving Greater for Planar spells, Resurrection, Wish, etc). Or you could leave Greater Effect definitions as they are but reduce their multipliers (for example, x1.5 for 1, x2 for 2, x3 for 3, etc). This may be a major departure from the RAW, but as long as you're consistent in implementation it shouldn't be too gamebreaking. Remember that the NPCs will likewise have access to these spells - even non-casters can use Charms and Wards.

The multiplier tweaks might work, I'll have to crunch the numbers -- I do like the idea of just tweaking the spell costs as to messing with the Safe Threshold numbers. I had considered not using the multipliers at all and imposing a penalty to successfully casting the spells instead - but I worried that some spells would get a lot cheaper than I intended.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by ronalmb

I can see where you are coming from and it makes sense, but I kind of want something like Body of Shadow (duration 10 minutes) to be in the reach of more than just the grandmasters. Part of the problem is my group comes from that other game, so they (and me to some extent) have quite a bit of adapting when it comes to the magic systems, especially.

So far, tripling the safe threshold table seems to be make things a little more attainable (but risky), and keep things in reach. The grimoires could work, but we're playing more action-sorcerer types than the bookish carry around the grimoire wizards so I'll need to find a way to fluff-flavor the grimoires into something different.

I wouldn't recommend altering the safe threshold table any. However, if you want to triple the effectiveness of a given level, you can mostly do so by redefining what a 'Greater Effect' is or how it impacts energy costs. Maybe Greater Effects don't alter energy costs at all - they just make the ritual more dangerous in some way, such as making it so any failure is treated as a critical failure (any quirk is a botch) unless you take a penalty to the skill roll.

Body of Shadow is so expensive because it has 2 Greater Effects in it, making it cost 5 times as much as normal - by altering the Greater Effect definition, you can make it a measly 70 energy.

[Christopher R. Rice]

As others have pointed out, a effective skill of 15 is...kind of low. A serious charm creator probably has a high-end Workspace Kit, maybe a place of power, grimoires for commonly created spells, and an apprentice or two that can help. Depending on your campaign setting, you may want to decide what is and isn't a Greater effect to offset the cost of some rituals (as has been previously suggested); let me also suggest you take Pyramid #3/66: The Laws of Magic for toying around with RPM in general.

[scc]

Originally Posted by ronalmb

I'm going to have to disagree with that assessment. I am pretty positive I've read in several places that a skill of 13 is considered a professional level. I'm also pretty positive that i've read somewhere that skills of around 25 are pretty grandmasterish.

Did I imagine reading this under skills somewhere?

13 is about right for a Professional Skill, but by Professional Skill we're talking about the sort of skill that you use to make job rolls or that NPCs have for whatever services they provide. Note that the skill level calculated includes the +4 for unrushed, unthreatened actions

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by scc

13 is about right for a Professional Skill, but by Professional Skill we're talking about the sort of skill that you use to make job rolls or that NPCs have for whatever services they provide. Note that the skill level calculated includes the +4 for unrushed, unthreatened actions

You never get a time bonus for casting magic. Magic is a dangerous business, you're better off playing with your dad's chainsaw instead.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You never get a time bonus for casting magic. Magic is a dangerous business, you're better off playing with your dad's chainsaw instead.

Right. That's one of the major reasons why 15 is the base 'professional skill' level for a mage - they don't get positive TDMs for 'unrushed, unthreatened' use.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Langy

Right. That's one of the major reasons why 15 is the base 'professional skill' level for a mage - they don't get positive TDMs for 'unrushed, unthreatened' use.

Again, I think the OP is overlooking the bonuses you can acquire for grimoires, places of power, workspace kits, and so on.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

grimoires for commonly created spells

Question that occurs to me:

Would a charm creator need separate grimoires for the "cast" and the "charm/conditional" versions of a ritual?

[ronalmb]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Again, I think the OP is overlooking the bonuses you can acquire for grimoires, places of power, workspace kits, and so on.

No, not overlooking them. But am observing that needing to be kitted out to the gills to safely attempt Body of Shadows and other spells I consider more mid-ranged isn't proving to be as compatible with my goals as I would like. I can fluff out grimoires to be something other than tomes and workplace kits is a little to academic sounding for the type of sorcery I am trying to force RPM to be, methinks.

The suggestion proving to be most useful so far is to revisit the Lesser/Greater effects and be a little more friendly on what is a Lesser spell and instead of using cost multipliers I'm going to impose penalties to the casting rolls instead. This will make the channeling of energy for larger spells a little friendlier while making it more likely that casters attempting spells beyond their ability will fail the casting portion.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Question that occurs to me:

Would a charm creator need separate grimoires for the "cast" and the "charm/conditional" versions of a ritual?

Negative. The added Lesser Control Magic effect to create a charm is the equivalent of saran wrap, but for spells. It keeps it fresh and portable. That said, a grimoire that can only be used to create charms might be worth half as much just like casters can purchase formularies for potions (see p. 29 of GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic)

Originally Posted by ronalmb

No, not overlooking them. But am observing that needing to be kitted out to the gills to safely attempt Body of Shadows and other spells I consider more mid-ranged isn't proving to be as compatible with my goals as I would like. I can fluff out grimoires to be something other than tomes and workplace kits is a little to academic sounding for the type of sorcery I am trying to force RPM to be, methinks.

The suggestion proving to be most useful so far is to revisit the Lesser/Greater effects and be a little more friendly on what is a Lesser spell and instead of using cost multipliers I'm going to impose penalties to the casting rolls instead. This will make the channeling of energy for larger spells a little friendlier while making it more likely that casters attempting spells beyond their ability will fail the casting portion.

That's what I did when I wanted certain spells to be commonplace and others not to be. Just don't increase the cost of spells willy-nilly or require extra spell effects for a single effect - otherwise your players will get grumpy.