weapon design

Lameth · 07-14-2014, 03:35 PM

Then logically, can you tell me why weapon master gives a + to damage. Is it because of your superior skill you know how to do more damage? or something else?

because then why not apply to guns as well, since the Gear bow is basically a gun. You set it for a ST of X and then shot. So why is the player being given a bonus to Damage for simply pulling the trigger?

i really want to give the PC the WM bonus, I’m just trying to see why. And also for when the gun aspected PC asks why does he get it and i don’t when we are basically both using a gun?

the gear bow works by tension and pulleys, then a pump action to lock a new bolt in place, then pull the trigger. If its set for a lower ST, the pump is easier to pull to shoot more bolts per second.

Anthony · 07-14-2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lameth

Then logically, can you tell me why weapon master gives a + to damage.

Unspecified, perhaps greater efficiency of muscle use (in which case, WM should probably allow you to use a heavier bow). This came up a while back on 'does WM apply to the extra dice from vibro weapons' and word of Kromm was no.

It would clean up WM (and brawling/karate) by a bit to have it give a striking ST bonus instead of a per-die bonus.

Varyon · 07-14-2014, 03:47 PM

Weapon Master is explicitly cinematic, although training-based bonuses to ST are probably realistic (just not necessarily to the extremes WM deals with). WM is basically "I'm so awesome with [weapon] I can deal far more damage than someone of equal strength," training-based ST bonuses (called Trained ST in Technical Grappling, where the concept was introduced) are more "I've built up musculature appropriate to this particular task as a side effect of training for it, and I've also learned how to most efficiently direct my strength for the task at hand." For the first, a character with WM (Gearbow) would, in theory, be able to pick up a weapon drawn by someone else of higher ST and fire it, doing more damage than the loader would have by sheer dent of being awesome. I personally treat Weapon Master as being more like Trained ST (if I don't just fold it into Trained ST outright).

Lameth · 07-14-2014, 04:18 PM

Anthony, how would you "fix" weapon master and karate?

It would would seem like a +1 or +2 to ST only is a little light for a 45pt advantage. right? how would you do it?

Anthony · 07-14-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lameth

Anthony, how would you "fix" weapon master and karate?

Well, I'd be strongly tempted to trash the entire mechanic and replace it with something where you can specifically buy whatever level of damage bonus you want, with a note that anything above a certain amount is cinematic, but otherwise likely +2 at DX, +4 at DX+2.

As a side note, weapon master doesn't actually improve damage -- it increases your swing and thrust secondary attributes.

Lameth · 07-14-2014, 04:57 PM

As a side note, weapon master doesn't actually improve damage -- it increases your swing and thrust secondary attributes.[/QUOTE]

haha.. im sorry, whats the diffrence?

Anthony · 07-14-2014, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lameth

haha.. im sorry, whats the diffrence?

It means that any weapon that doesn't express damage in the form 'thrust+x' or 'swing+x' is unaffected, and anything that's not part of thrust or swing is unaffected.

cosmicfish · 07-14-2014, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

It means that any weapon that doesn't express damage in the form 'thrust+x' or 'swing+x' is unaffected,

Absolutely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

and anything that's not part of thrust or swing is unaffected.

Not so much - Thrust and Swing are game abstracts, not specific movements, and WM is adjusting the abstracts. Using a bow does not involve either a thrusting or swinging motion (it is more of a pull) and WM adds to the damage. I do not believe the description of WM explicitly defines the reason for this damage increase, which could either be the ability to place the shot in a more damaging location, or perhaps a strengthening of a few very specific muscle groups that is too narrow to justify even Striking ST.

vicky_molokh · 07-15-2014, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

It means that any weapon that doesn't express damage in the form 'thrust+x' or 'swing+x' is unaffected, and anything that's not part of thrust or swing is unaffected.

Force Sword damage is not thr/sw-based, but you can apply the WM bonus to them (MA209).

cosmicfish · 07-14-2014, 04:19 PM

The gearbow as described is no different than a crossbow, save for some details of the mechanism - the weapon is still powered by the user's strength. Like a crossbow, it stores that energy for some period before it is fired, and while the argument for WM does seem pretty weak with this kind of weapon, it does canonically apply to crossbows so it seems like it should apply here as well.

That having been said, I could definitely see a GM saying no WM for either crossbows or gearbows.

07-14-2014, 03:35 PM	#1
Lameth Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: weapon design Then logically, can you tell me why weapon master gives a + to damage. Is it because of your superior skill you know how to do more damage? or something else? because then why not apply to guns as well, since the Gear bow is basically a gun. You set it for a ST of X and then shot. So why is the player being given a bonus to Damage for simply pulling the trigger? i really want to give the PC the WM bonus, I’m just trying to see why. And also for when the gun aspected PC asks why does he get it and i don’t when we are basically both using a gun? the gear bow works by tension and pulleys, then a pump action to lock a new bolt in place, then pull the trigger. If its set for a lower ST, the pump is easier to pull to shoot more bolts per second.

07-14-2014, 03:47 PM	#3
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: weapon design Weapon Master is explicitly cinematic, although training-based bonuses to ST are probably realistic (just not necessarily to the extremes WM deals with). WM is basically "I'm so awesome with [weapon] I can deal far more damage than someone of equal strength," training-based ST bonuses (called Trained ST in Technical Grappling, where the concept was introduced) are more "I've built up musculature appropriate to this particular task as a side effect of training for it, and I've also learned how to most efficiently direct my strength for the task at hand." For the first, a character with WM (Gearbow) would, in theory, be able to pick up a weapon drawn by someone else of higher ST and fire it, doing more damage than the loader would have by sheer dent of being awesome. I personally treat Weapon Master as being more like Trained ST (if I don't just fold it into Trained ST outright).

07-14-2014, 04:18 PM	#4
Lameth Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: weapon design Anthony, how would you "fix" weapon master and karate? It would would seem like a +1 or +2 to ST only is a little light for a 45pt advantage. right? how would you do it?

07-14-2014, 04:57 PM	#6
Lameth Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: weapon design As a side note, weapon master doesn't actually improve damage -- it increases your swing and thrust secondary attributes.[/QUOTE] haha.. im sorry, whats the diffrence?

07-14-2014, 04:19 PM	#10
cosmicfish Join Date: Mar 2010	Re: weapon design The gearbow as described is no different than a crossbow, save for some details of the mechanism - the weapon is still powered by the user's strength. Like a crossbow, it stores that energy for some period before it is fired, and while the argument for WM does seem pretty weak with this kind of weapon, it does canonically apply to crossbows so it seems like it should apply here as well. That having been said, I could definitely see a GM saying no WM for either crossbows or gearbows.