weapon design

Lameth · 07-14-2014, 11:56 AM

I created a weapon for a PC. It’s called a Gear Bow. Basically it’s a crossbow without the bow. It uses gears and springs and pulleys to cock the bow, pull it back and then shoot it, all with a pump action. Its semi-cinematic. It allows ROF 1, and the ST can be adjusted from a 5ST-20ST with a dial on it.

It was made by a gadgetteer in TL8. It allows for the lesser ST settings to get a higher ROF up to 3 also. At a 14ST or lower its ROF3.

my question is would weapon master bow add to the damage of this? It’s not a St powered weapon anymore, correct? It’s basically a gun.

Anders · 07-14-2014, 12:03 PM

I'd let WM help with it. You are still using your muscles as the source of energy - it's just stored in the gears and pulleys and whatnots. The same happens with a bow - the energy is stored in the frame and the string.

Lameth · 07-14-2014, 12:18 PM

Yes but it has nothing to do with his ST right? its all the pulleys. Not sure. Basically at a 20ST he is doing 3-4d i think. 2d-1 [bow at 20ST], then +2 per die for a total of +4 (weapon master), so thats 2d+3. +2 for bolt. so thats 2d+5 or 3d+1.

Anthony · 07-14-2014, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lameth

my question is would weapon master bow add to the damage of this?

Weapon master adds +1 per die of ST damage to the damage of a weapon, based on the ST of the weapon master. As this weapon does not use the ST of the weapon master, it's unaffected.

vicky_molokh · 07-14-2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Weapon master adds +1 per die of ST damage to the damage of a weapon, based on the ST of the weapon master. As this weapon does not use the ST of the weapon master, it's unaffected.

That sort of logic seems to apply to Low-Tech bows, which use their own ST too.

Varyon · 07-14-2014, 02:47 PM

With bows, because they have their own ST, I would let Weapon Master boost the character's effective ST enough to get the damage bonus. I don't see any real problem with doing the same for crossbows and similar. So, if you've got an ST 16 character with Weapon Master (Gearbow) and enough skill for a +2 to damage, you're looking at 1d+4 thr, which is equivalent to ST 20 (in general, every +2 ST is +1 thr), so the character can use it at its maximum setting, or drop its ST for higher RoF.

Note above I specifically said Weapon Master (Gearbow). This is an entirely different beast from a normal bow, and is only somewhat-related to a crossbow. WM (Bow) shouldn't apply. I personally wouldn't allow for WM (Crossbow) either, although while WM (Bow and Gearbow) probably wouldn't be an appropriate pairing, WM (Crossbow and Gearbow) probably would be.

Anthony · 07-14-2014, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

That sort of logic seems to apply to Low-Tech bows, which use their own ST too.

Arguably yes. In any case, the damage bonus for a low tech bow should be based on the user's ST, so if you're ST 11 and wielding a ST 17 crossbow, weapon master gives +1, not +2.

Lameth · 07-14-2014, 03:35 PM

Then logically, can you tell me why weapon master gives a + to damage. Is it because of your superior skill you know how to do more damage? or something else?

because then why not apply to guns as well, since the Gear bow is basically a gun. You set it for a ST of X and then shot. So why is the player being given a bonus to Damage for simply pulling the trigger?

i really want to give the PC the WM bonus, I’m just trying to see why. And also for when the gun aspected PC asks why does he get it and i don’t when we are basically both using a gun?

the gear bow works by tension and pulleys, then a pump action to lock a new bolt in place, then pull the trigger. If its set for a lower ST, the pump is easier to pull to shoot more bolts per second.

Anthony · 07-14-2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lameth

Then logically, can you tell me why weapon master gives a + to damage.

Unspecified, perhaps greater efficiency of muscle use (in which case, WM should probably allow you to use a heavier bow). This came up a while back on 'does WM apply to the extra dice from vibro weapons' and word of Kromm was no.

It would clean up WM (and brawling/karate) by a bit to have it give a striking ST bonus instead of a per-die bonus.

Varyon · 07-14-2014, 03:47 PM

Weapon Master is explicitly cinematic, although training-based bonuses to ST are probably realistic (just not necessarily to the extremes WM deals with). WM is basically "I'm so awesome with [weapon] I can deal far more damage than someone of equal strength," training-based ST bonuses (called Trained ST in Technical Grappling, where the concept was introduced) are more "I've built up musculature appropriate to this particular task as a side effect of training for it, and I've also learned how to most efficiently direct my strength for the task at hand." For the first, a character with WM (Gearbow) would, in theory, be able to pick up a weapon drawn by someone else of higher ST and fire it, doing more damage than the loader would have by sheer dent of being awesome. I personally treat Weapon Master as being more like Trained ST (if I don't just fold it into Trained ST outright).

07-14-2014, 11:56 AM	#1
Lameth Join Date: Aug 2004	weapon design I created a weapon for a PC. It’s called a Gear Bow. Basically it’s a crossbow without the bow. It uses gears and springs and pulleys to cock the bow, pull it back and then shoot it, all with a pump action. Its semi-cinematic. It allows ROF 1, and the ST can be adjusted from a 5ST-20ST with a dial on it. It was made by a gadgetteer in TL8. It allows for the lesser ST settings to get a higher ROF up to 3 also. At a 14ST or lower its ROF3. my question is would weapon master bow add to the damage of this? It’s not a St powered weapon anymore, correct? It’s basically a gun.

07-14-2014, 12:03 PM	#2
Anders Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden	Re: weapon design I'd let WM help with it. You are still using your muscles as the source of energy - it's just stored in the gears and pulleys and whatnots. The same happens with a bow - the energy is stored in the frame and the string. __________________ “When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius Author of Winged Folk. The GURPS Discord. Drop by and say hi!

07-14-2014, 12:18 PM	#3
Lameth Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: weapon design Yes but it has nothing to do with his ST right? its all the pulleys. Not sure. Basically at a 20ST he is doing 3-4d i think. 2d-1 [bow at 20ST], then +2 per die for a total of +4 (weapon master), so thats 2d+3. +2 for bolt. so thats 2d+5 or 3d+1.

07-14-2014, 02:47 PM	#6
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: weapon design With bows, because they have their own ST, I would let Weapon Master boost the character's effective ST enough to get the damage bonus. I don't see any real problem with doing the same for crossbows and similar. So, if you've got an ST 16 character with Weapon Master (Gearbow) and enough skill for a +2 to damage, you're looking at 1d+4 thr, which is equivalent to ST 20 (in general, every +2 ST is +1 thr), so the character can use it at its maximum setting, or drop its ST for higher RoF. Note above I specifically said Weapon Master (Gearbow). This is an entirely different beast from a normal bow, and is only somewhat-related to a crossbow. WM (Bow) shouldn't apply. I personally wouldn't allow for WM (Crossbow) either, although while WM (Bow and Gearbow) probably wouldn't be an appropriate pairing, WM (Crossbow and Gearbow) probably would be.

07-14-2014, 03:35 PM	#8
Lameth Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: weapon design Then logically, can you tell me why weapon master gives a + to damage. Is it because of your superior skill you know how to do more damage? or something else? because then why not apply to guns as well, since the Gear bow is basically a gun. You set it for a ST of X and then shot. So why is the player being given a bonus to Damage for simply pulling the trigger? i really want to give the PC the WM bonus, I’m just trying to see why. And also for when the gun aspected PC asks why does he get it and i don’t when we are basically both using a gun? the gear bow works by tension and pulleys, then a pump action to lock a new bolt in place, then pull the trigger. If its set for a lower ST, the pump is easier to pull to shoot more bolts per second.

07-14-2014, 03:47 PM	#10
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: weapon design Weapon Master is explicitly cinematic, although training-based bonuses to ST are probably realistic (just not necessarily to the extremes WM deals with). WM is basically "I'm so awesome with [weapon] I can deal far more damage than someone of equal strength," training-based ST bonuses (called Trained ST in Technical Grappling, where the concept was introduced) are more "I've built up musculature appropriate to this particular task as a side effect of training for it, and I've also learned how to most efficiently direct my strength for the task at hand." For the first, a character with WM (Gearbow) would, in theory, be able to pick up a weapon drawn by someone else of higher ST and fire it, doing more damage than the loader would have by sheer dent of being awesome. I personally treat Weapon Master as being more like Trained ST (if I don't just fold it into Trained ST outright).