Shipwreck survival

[Dalillama]

Throwing skill plus rocks can also mean seabird dinners.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, it can if the air is dry, but the effect isn't very pronounced at low temperature, and clouds are usually not dry air. As I understand it, usual way you get hail is an updraft carrying raindrops up to a high enough altitude that the air there is below freezing, and you can get freezing rain if the air at cloud level is freezing, whatever the temperature at ground level (you can also get the water equivalent of this -- rain that evaporates as it hits the ground, or even before).

yep. Sleet is not actually freezing rain and is in my experiance less common then hail but you can have ground temp above freezing when it happens.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Throwing skill plus rocks can also mean seabird dinners.

Lizards and other small game too.
Probably not much reptile activity on the coast of Sweden in winter but rabbits seem possible.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

How the heck they survive that swim in the first place? HT14, Swimming 16+, genetic temperature tolerance slightly beyond the normal human range. I did mention they were supernormals.

They lived through swimming miles in the autumn Baltic in a storm bad enough to sink a ship out in open water? They likely won't be freezing to death either. You don't lose heat at anything like the rate you will in water to air, even a good deal colder air. If they're still functional after hours in cold water (and the water in the Baltic is *always* cold by the standards of long term survival, anything below 70F (20C) is) they can probably run around naked in a snowstorm. If it didn't get bad enough to keep them from swimming, it's not going to kill them any time soon even if they stay *in* the water. Total helplessness sets in in something like a quarter of the time it takes for cold water to actually kill you.

[Vynticator]

Actually, the water in that part of the Baltic is relatively sheltered and warm for the area. 12-14'C. I've swum open water in 13'c and it is certainly chilly. Allowing a few degrees genetic temp tolerance, though, a long swim in something closer to an equivalent of 17-18'C is quite feasible, as I understand it. People make the English Channel swim (21 miles) every year; the youngest to do so was eleven years old.

The swim they will have completed is much shorter, but still, I expect them to be near exhaustion (one perhaps unconscious) by the time they reach the shore. I'll be running 'The Last Gasp' rules for the fatigue.

If they're wet and exposed to the wind after a swim like that, and night falls, you're looking at sub zero temperatures, so yes, I expect that would kill them. Hence a need for survival rolls to get shelter and fire in the few hours before nightfall.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

South-west coast of Sweden in late October. Sea temp for the swim to shore was 55'F;

Originally Posted by Vynticator

How the heck they survive that swim in the first place? HT14, Swimming 16+, genetic temperature tolerance slightly beyond the normal human range.

Originally Posted by Immersion; GURPS Supers page 104

Water conducts heat far faster than air, and immersion in water can cause rapid thermal shock (p. B430). Aquatic heroes are likely to have powers that let them withstand immersion in cold water, and sometimes in hot water. GMs may use the following rules for a more detailed treatment of such effects.

In water the comfort zone is much narrower, with a width of only 10ºF (from 75ºF to 85ºF for a normal human being). An Amphibious character has a comfort zone 35ºF wide (from 50ºF to 85ºF for a normal human being). Buying Temperature Tolerance adds HT/5 degrees to the thermal comfort zone in water, or HT/2 degrees for an Amphibious character.

In water at a temperature outside this narrower comfort zone, but inside the normal comfort zone, roll vs. HT once per minute. On a failure, the affected character lose 1 FP; in hot water, on a critical failure he suffers heat stroke and loses 1d FP.

At temperatures colder than the normal comfort zone, or colder than normal freezing temperature, he suffers thermal shock (see p. B430).

At temperatures higher than the normal comfort zone, he suffers the usual effects (p. B434) in addition to losing FP from failed rolls vs. HT. Note that FP aren’t normally lost from dehydration if someone is immersed in water.

With HT 14 and 3 levels of Temperature Tolerance, on average they would lose roughly 1 FP every 10 minutes in the water from the cold, plus whatever they lose from the swimming

Originally Posted by Basic set page 354

After every minute of top-speed swimming, roll against the higher of HT or Swimming skill. On a failure, you lose 1 FP.

With Swimming 16 that's roughly 1 point every 54 minutes.

Originally Posted by Vynticator

They'll have had to swim for a couple of hours. If they're smart, they'll have ditched their clothes to reduce drag.

With HT 14 they have 14 FP. After 90 minutes they will be at half swimming move.
In 120 minutes they should have lost 14 points of fatigue, and be at 0 fatigue at which point they need to make Will rolls every second to keep swimming and not drown.

Assuming basic move of 7 they should have swum roughly 5 miles in that time.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

Fishing.
Survival - Beach is an obvious one. But what penalties would accrue for the following:
1) unfamiliar coastline/flora/fauna

Familiarity? -2?

Originally Posted by Low tech Companion 3, page 5

The GM may opt to apply Familiarity (p. B169) to the Survival skill to cover different geographical regions.

Originally Posted by Familiarity; Basic set page 169

Familiarity
Any skill used to operate equipment – e.g., Beam Weapons/TL11 (Pistol) or Driving/TL7 (Automobile) – takes a penalty when you are faced with an unfamiliar type of item. For instance, if you were trained on a laser pistol, a blaster pistol would be “unfamiliar.” Assume that an unfamiliar piece of equipment gives -2 to skill except where an individual skill description specifies otherwise.

Originally Posted by Vynticator

2) total lack of equipment

-5

Originally Posted by Fishing; Low tech Companion 3, page 8

Modifiers: -5 if wholly unequipped, or -2 if using improvised tools (e.g., a sharpened stick for a spear).

Originally Posted by Fishing; Low tech Companion 3, page 8

Success catches 1/2 meal of edible fish, plus a further 1/2 meal per point of success; e.g., a roll of 7 vs. an effective Fishing skill of 12 would yield three meals. Triple this yield for two fishermen handling a large net together. Critical failure on any roll means the area is fished out for the remainder of the day.

Pick a quality for the Environment:

Originally Posted by Fishing; Low tech Companion 3, page 4

For day-to-day requirements, these grades determine the time needed for each attempt to use the Survival skill to find food:
Desolate: 1d+6 hours
Very Poor: 1d+2 hours
Poor: 1d-1 hours (minimum 1 hour)
Typical: 1 hour
Good: 1/2 hour
Excellent: 1d attempts per hour

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

I'd have thought -5 for building shelter without *any* equipment. Seem fair?
No penalty for finding shellfish and berries (presumably, equipment-free)
No penalty for finding fresh water (no equipment needed)
-3 perhaps for trapping without rope, hammer, hooks, etc to build a snare? Or is that too harsh?

I'd go -5 for the traps as well. I'd also allow taking extra time [B346] to give bonuses to any of the above.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

I'd really welcome other ideas on this - I want this to be a tough, gritty 'out of the comfort zone' challenge for otherwise very robust, supernormal-warrior-type characters.

Fire is very important:

Originally Posted by Fire-Starting Gear; low tech page 35

The simplest fire-starting gear is two pieces of wood. Vigorously rubbing one against the other produces heat, fine sawdust, and eventually an ember, which may be placed on tinder (dry leaves, wood shavings, etc.) to set it alight in turn. Any attempt to start a fire without dedicated equipment takes 6 minutes and a Survival or Housekeeping skill roll. Double fire-lighting time if any of the components aren’t completely dry – and kindling that’s actually damp to the touch won’t catch fire at all with low-tech methods! More-sophisticated tools speed the ember-lighting process, but still require a skill roll unless otherwise noted. Friction techniques cost 1 FP per 3 minutes of effort.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

-Building improvised shelter

I'd have thought -5 for building shelter without *any* equipment. Seem fair?

No penalty for no equipment, but two rolls:

Originally Posted by Improvised Shelter; Low-Tech page 31

Shelter – particularly for nomads – wasn’t necessarily carried. It was sometimes built on the spot from available materials.

Igloo (TL0). An igloo requires deep, well-compacted snow. After digging an entrance trench, the builder cuts slightly trapezoidal blocks of snow 6”-8” thick and roughly a foot wide and tall. He then stacks the blocks into a dome, which he covers with loose snow. Snow is a good insulator; an inhabited igloo attains a cool but survivable temperature above freezing. It can even survive a small fire, if an exhaust hole is poked through the roof. Building a 6’ igloo takes 4 hours and a roll against Survival (Arctic). A completed igloo provides +2 to subsequent Survival (Arctic) rolls, and offers cover DR 1. The igloo itself has DR 0, HP 44. Blocks are generally carved using a wooden snow saw ($28, 2 lbs.) – but any reasonably long, flat object would work.

Lean-To (TL0). This is a series of leafy branches propped up against a fallen tree or a steep slope to form a triangular sheltered area. Building a lean-to requires a Survival roll and 3 minutes with a metal axe or 8 minutes with a stone axe; without tools, it takes 15 minutes and an additional Survival roll to scrounge fallen branches. A lean-to affords no cover DR and can be swept away with a single swinging attack. It gives +1 to Survival and must be rebuilt daily (another Survival roll).

The second roll should take modifiers from environment, as it's easier to find fallen branches in woodlands than in a desert.