Trained Strength for Striking [TG]

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I actually only looked at the melee combat oriented ones. The Barbarian only has DX+3 with shields unless going for a two-handed option, a Flail-wielding Holy Warrior similarly only has DX+3 with shields, a three-skill Knight lacks any melee combat skill above DX+2, and no Martial Artist has one above DX+2.

Fair enough, My experience is skills tend to go higher (but then stats at my table are probably lower). This makes sense when you consider a skill of 14 is seen as professional, experts being 16+ (I'm guessing most 250pt DF PCs are edging more towards experts in specific areas)

Originally Posted by Varyon

Weapon Master gives +1 to progression, meaning Slow becomes Average, Average becomes Fast, and Fast becomes Very Fast.

Ok, but does that replace weapon masters normal bonus (I'm guessing yes) that's a good tweak in terms of linking WM with your system, but may make WM a bit pricey.

Originally Posted by Varyon

There are no Fast Progression armed skills unless allowing Weapon Master or using my system, where getting to that point increases difficulty by 2 steps (Easy to Hard, Average to Very Hard). Ignoring Weapon Master, this works out to getting the same damage bonus for a given point investment (DX+2 for a Hard skill costs as much as DX+4 for an Easy skill). So, yes, you only need DX+4 to match Karate's current maximum bonus when using swings, and DX+7 to exceed it. As DX+7 is likely to mark you as one of the most competent warriors in your region, I see no issue with it giving such a bonus. Fast Progression armed skills get there at only DX+4, but those are skills where the training specifically emphasizes building up the necessary muscles and learning how to hit much harder, so I'm honestly alright with that.

You keep ignoring that using the karate bonus as a comparison point for melee weapon ignores that karate is starting at thrusting -1 cr for punch (or thrust cr for kick). So it not a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by Varyon

It isn't, but I don't see "This realistic rule shouldn't be implemented because it makes this other unrealistic rule more unrealistic" as a valid argument. If the problem lies with the unrealistic rule, you change that one rather than abandoning a realistic one.

Again it not a question of realistic or not, it's a question of cheapness. I don't think your rule's effect isn't realistic (at lower levels of bonus), I just think you should pay for positive effects.
There are lots of realistic things in GURPS there realism doesn't mean they don't cost points.

But yes if you going to up DR or reduce damage in some way this tweak's benefit will change.

Originally Posted by Varyon

It's a difference of [2] points per +1 TST. That's not likely to add up to a lot - a character with an Average Progression skill at DX+10 is probably a [300]+ character, at which point the "free" [8] he's managed to get from this rule probably isn't a huge concern.

Which makes me think 2pts is probably to cheap TBH (but I agree its RAW). But yes 300pt is a lot of realistic Character.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Stop right there. ST 18 is possible for humans, and humans are unable to get through DR 6 plate. You think this means that ST 18 humans will only ever face ST 18 humans wearing armor that has been scaled to encumber them as much as DR 6 plate encumbers a person with ST 10. If you gave Andre the Giant a sword, and trained him in its use, it wouldn't matter if he were facing an average man in DR 6 plate or a clone of himself in DR 12, he wouldn't be able to chop through the plate.

Stop right where? Leaving aside the whole ST18 is realistic (its not IMO, but lets leave that for another day you and I have done this before) my point was that High ST balances against itself because High ST can inflict more damage, but also wear more DR. I.e in like for like comparison ST and DR scales.

However as to your point, your rule has made cutting though DR6 all the more likely? So welcome to your rule I guess?

Andre with his ST18 does basic 3d with swing, so give him a Broadsword and its 3d+1 but give him a skill of DX+4 and assuming broadsword is avg progression (you still haven't said which weapons would be what progression) and he's doing 3d+4. That means he will be cutting through DR6 even with edge protection 75% of the time, as opposed to 37% of the time without the tweak.

Defeating armour has been my issue with this tweak all the way through.

As I said before if you going to reduce melee damage (or increase DR) then fine my balance of opinion on this tweak will change.

EDIT: ah spotted a possible point of miscommunication here I wasn't saying "bad" ironically (as in "bad" = good). But used the bunny ears to indicated all sorts of unwritten reasons why it's bad that we already agree on. Its just that one them which we may not agree on is that I think one of the reasons why ST18 chaps cutting through DR6 plate is un-realistic is because ST18 chaps in abstract are not realistic, and if they were likely than DR6 plate would itself not be the realistic defence employed.

Originally Posted by Varyon

People who have trained a lot to fight in armor are indeed going to have strengthened their muscles for purposes of carrying heavy weight around, but this would be a generic boost to Lifting ST, not something armor specific. However, as no GURPS skill is necessary to wear armor (PC's are assumed to be perfectly comfortable with armor on, only suffering for its weight), there really isn't any way to gauge this, so simply charging for Lifting ST is probably the most appropriate. Of course, I'd be tempted to give a character who has purchased Lifting ST with the justification of "I've fought a lot in armor," and who also has a lot of points in skills appropriate to such a character (Armory, Soldier, melee weapons, etc), a bonus when defending against attacks that exploit armor weaknesses (Hitting 'Em Where it Hurts, Armor Chinks, and Armor Gaps) - if the bonus makes the difference, the foe instead hits where the armor defends normally.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, something like a +2 DB when the foe targets a subsection of a hit location, where success by DB results in them instead striking the most heavily-armored part of that subsection, would be a pretty solid Perk. Just wearing bracers and the foe targets your upper arm? +2 to try and get them to hit the bracers instead. Just wearing a pectoral and the foe targets your stomach? +2 to try and get them to hit the pectoral instead. Probably cinematic when you've only got 1/6 protection on the hit location, but probably realistic when up against a foe exploiting Chinks and Armor Gaps.

Well as I said there's certainly ways to buff DR, or reduce the negative effects of DR vs. this tweak.