Trained Strength for Striking [TG]

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

I'm guessing those particular DF builds are not the melee combat orientated ones. Basically my point was a reduction that never applies is not in fact a deduction in any meaningful way.

I actually only looked at the melee combat oriented ones. The Barbarian only has DX+3 with shields unless going for a two-handed option, a Flail-wielding Holy Warrior similarly only has DX+3 with shields, a three-skill Knight lacks any melee combat skill above DX+2, and no Martial Artist has one above DX+2.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Sorry I missed that, is that in addition to the fast progression bonuses?

Weapon Master gives +1 to progression, meaning Slow becomes Average, Average becomes Fast, and Fast becomes Very Fast.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Yes but we're not talking about karate and brawling with progression, we're talking about various melee skills. The bonus from karate is limited to thrusting (and a low damage cr thrusting attack at that). If you were comparing the bonuses to karate to melee weapons that are thrust-1 cr, it would be a valid comparison

To get +2 on a swung attack (i.e to match the karate max bonus) you'll only need DX+4 on avg, DX+2 on fast and DX+1 on V.fast

There are no Fast Progression armed skills unless allowing Weapon Master or using my system, where getting to that point increases difficulty by 2 steps (Easy to Hard, Average to Very Hard). Ignoring Weapon Master, this works out to getting the same damage bonus for a given point investment (DX+2 for a Hard skill costs as much as DX+4 for an Easy skill). So, yes, you only need DX+4 to match Karate's current maximum bonus when using swings, and DX+7 to exceed it. As DX+7 is likely to mark you as one of the most competent warriors in your region, I see no issue with it giving such a bonus. Fast Progression armed skills get there at only DX+4, but those are skills where the training specifically emphasizes building up the necessary muscles and learning how to hit much harder, so I'm honestly alright with that.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

However even if it is an issue, not sure why making it worse is the way to go?

It isn't, but I don't see "This realistic rule shouldn't be implemented because it makes this other unrealistic rule more unrealistic" as a valid argument. If the problem lies with the unrealistic rule, you change that one rather than abandoning a realistic one.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

No but needing to pay points will act as a limiting factor on it. But the point is there's no corresponding mitigation to your tweak, i.e no balancing effect.

It's a difference of [2] points per +1 TST. That's not likely to add up to a lot - a character with an Average Progression skill at DX+10 is probably a [300]+ character, at which point the "free" [8] he's managed to get from this rule probably isn't a huge concern.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

A ST barbarian chops through DR6 plate even with edge protection we agree this is 'bad'. But in a ST18 world he won't ever be going up against DR6 plate

Stop right there. ST 18 is possible for humans, and humans are unable to get through DR 6 plate. You think this means that ST 18 humans will only ever face ST 18 humans wearing armor that has been scaled to encumber them as much as DR 6 plate encumbers a person with ST 10. If you gave Andre the Giant a sword, and trained him in its use, it wouldn't matter if he were facing an average man in DR 6 plate or a clone of himself in DR 12, he wouldn't be able to chop through the plate.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

There's no equivalent free, realistic bonus side effect for "people who trained a lot to fight in armour are able to get more benefit from it" (although given 5 mins I could probably make one up to be fair).

People who have trained a lot to fight in armor are indeed going to have strengthened their muscles for purposes of carrying heavy weight around, but this would be a generic boost to Lifting ST, not something armor specific. However, as no GURPS skill is necessary to wear armor (PC's are assumed to be perfectly comfortable with armor on, only suffering for its weight), there really isn't any way to gauge this, so simply charging for Lifting ST is probably the most appropriate. Of course, I'd be tempted to give a character who has purchased Lifting ST with the justification of "I've fought a lot in armor," and who also has a lot of points in skills appropriate to such a character (Armory, Soldier, melee weapons, etc), a bonus when defending against attacks that exploit armor weaknesses (Hitting 'Em Where it Hurts, Armor Chinks, and Armor Gaps) - if the bonus makes the difference, the foe instead hits where the armor defends normally.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, something like a +2 DB when the foe targets a subsection of a hit location, where success by DB results in them instead striking the most heavily-armored part of that subsection, would be a pretty solid Perk. Just wearing bracers and the foe targets your upper arm? +2 to try and get them to hit the bracers instead. Just wearing a pectoral and the foe targets your stomach? +2 to try and get them to hit the pectoral instead. Probably cinematic when you've only got 1/6 protection on the hit location, but probably realistic when up against a foe exploiting Chinks and Armor Gaps.