Reverse Missiles - Can you dodge?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

I was just thinking. Logically, using Reflection rules from DR, it makes sense someone could dodge a bullet at them because they can determine where it's going to go. I don't know that a spell would follow a physics determined path to allow dodging once reversed... then again, could just be assumed it does for the sake of allowing defenses.

Reverse Missiles attaches a "Return to Sender" to missiles. The only reason dodging bullets doesn't really work is that you can't actually see a bullet in flight. Arrows, knives, and wrenches are all visible in flight, so you can dodge those. The rules for dodging bullets even point out that you're really just trying to not be in line with the barrel of the gun when somebody pulls the trigger.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

The only reason dodging bullets doesn't really work is that you can't actually see a bullet in flight.

For the common meaning of dodge that means "see incoming motion and react specifically to avoid it". As you say, the GURPS "Dodge" is a technical term that doesn't mean that.

Originally Posted by B374

Dodge is normally the only active defense you can take against firearms. This does not mean you can actually dodge bullets! A dodge against this kind of attack represents an attempt not to be where you think your opponent will shoot, by weaving or ducking at the right moment.

Perhaps a better name would be "Evade" or "Weave".

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

I was just thinking. Logically, using Reflection rules from DR, it makes sense someone could dodge a bullet at them because they can determine where it's going to go. .

Sure if they know it's going to bounce back. But if they know it's going to bounce back, then why are they shooting?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Sure if they know it's going to bounce back. But if they know it's going to bounce back, then why are they shooting?

Yeah. I think Craig had the right idea. If you had no idea you were shooting at someone with Reflect Missiles, you won't be expecting the attack. Unless you're ignorant of magic (in which case, there might be some Unusual Background required of the mage), then you'll probably figure out what happened and look for some other target, or another way to get at that one.

[johndallman]

There's a case where I'd let a shooter try to dodge an unexpected Reverse Missiles. If you have and are using the Tracer Eyes perk (Tactical Shooting p41) and the range is great enough that the bullet will take a half-second or so to return, diving for cover seems plausible.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by johndallman

There's a case where I'd let a shooter try to dodge an unexpected Reverse Missiles. If you have and are using the Tracer Eyes perk (Tactical Shooting p41) and the range is great enough that the bullet will take a half-second or so to return, diving for cover seems plausible.

I feel Danger Sense also covers this, allowing you to dodge after a successful Per roll (IIRC at -2).

[GodBeastX]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Sure if they know it's going to bounce back. But if they know it's going to bounce back, then why are they shooting?

This is my feeling. If you shoot a bullet, you get hit. The spell is reversing it right at you so there's no way you could evade it. Basically, don't shoot is my feeling on bullets.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

This is my feeling. If you shoot a bullet, you get hit. The spell is reversing it right at you so there's no way you could evade it. Basically, don't shoot is my feeling on bullets.

Unless magic is known, and you can load up some meteoric iron bullets. Won't that be a nice surprise for the mage?

[Otaku]

I have to ask, because apparently the RAW is still the same as from 2e Magic (which is to say 3e GURPS) there was something that never made sense to me but it rarely came up in play so I just went with it.

Originally Posted by GURPS Magic

If the attacker’s “to hit” roll is successful, he hits himself – if not, he sees the missile fly back toward him and miss.

How is the exception at all applicable?

If the attacker misses his "to hit roll", then isn't he missing the target protected by Reverse Missile and thus the Spell never "activates" against that particular shot? Even in if the attacker missed a roll against a different target, crashing into Reverse Missile by accident, the spell should return the shot along the path from which it came, in which case the original target should risk being hit (if still in the line of fire) and then the attacker should still risk being hit (again, if still in the line of fire).

I know it is "magic", but it strikes me as more complicated to have the Spell work in any fashion but reversing the missile and sending it back along the path from which it came at (roughly) the same speed at which it hit the Reverse Missile effect.

[Anthony]

I can't find my copy of 3e magic at the moment, but IIRC it specified that you couldn't dodge the first reflected shot, but you could dodge subsequent reflected shots (why you are continuing to shoot at someone with reverse missiles is not addressed).