Passive Defense and 4e

[kirbwarrior]

I'm not sure on the rules in Low-Tech (don't have books atm), but I know that stone axes barely get worse than metal ones, while stone swords are hilariously bad. If metal is scarce, then axes and polearms already look better.

As for PD, I'd accept +300%* on Enhanced Defences to make it so they always work, even if the underlying defence can't. Heck, I think there is an option to auto-dodge with Cosmic in PU4.

*This is overpriced. I'm pretty sure there's a way to get 'No Roll Required' onto your Enhanced Defences, but I don't know how.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I'm not sure on the rules in Low-Tech (don't have books atm), but I know that stone axes barely get worse than metal ones, while stone swords are hilariously bad. If metal is scarce, then axes and polearms already look better.

As for PD, I'd accept +300%* on Enhanced Defences to make it so they always work, even if the underlying defence can't. Heck, I think there is an option to auto-dodge with Cosmic in PU4.

*This is overpriced. I'm pretty sure there's a way to get 'No Roll Required' onto your Enhanced Defences, but I don't know how.

That's definitely a 300%, as it's blatantly cheating to just declare "I dodged that!"

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

As for PD, I'd accept +300%* on Enhanced Defences to make it so they always work, even if the underlying defence can't. Heck, I think there is an option to auto-dodge with Cosmic in PU4.

*This is overpriced. I'm pretty sure there's a way to get 'No Roll Required' onto your Enhanced Defences, but I don't know how.

Page 7 of Power-Ups 4: Enhancements has a box dealing with what Cosmic on an Active Defense means, how to price it, and what it can and cannot do. Specifically, it states that you can indeed get around issues like Sneak Attacks and the like, but you cannot avoid the need for a dice roll. You could give it a shot if you really wanted to, but keep in mind such a character can only be hit if his defense is dropped below 3 or if the attack is completely unavoidable (unless you've also got a massive Step, Dodge isn't going to help against a tactical nuke detonated in your face).

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Page 7 of Power-Ups 4: Enhancements has a box dealing with what Cosmic on an Active Defense means, how to price it, and what it can and cannot do. Specifically, it states that you can indeed get around issues like Sneak Attacks and the like, but you cannot avoid the need for a dice roll. You could give it a shot if you really wanted to, but keep in mind such a character can only be hit if his defense is dropped below 3 or if the attack is completely unavoidable (unless you've also got a massive Step, Dodge isn't going to help against a tactical nuke detonated in your face).

Ah, but Warp with Reliable 10 and No Die Roll Required can! Which will probably end up on somebody going that crazy on saying "Nope, can't hit me!"

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Ah, but Warp with Reliable 10 and No Die Roll Required can! Which will probably end up on somebody going that crazy on saying "Nope, can't hit me!"

I'd call that an exploit - the intent of the box implies that Active Defenses shouldn't be allowed to get No Die Roll Required, regardless of if it's one of the three defaults or something gained by another Advantage (as the Warp Dodge, or any of the various Power Parry type abilities).

Unless you were responding to the tactical nuke situation, but I'd say Reliable 10 Warp with No Dice Roll Required isn't that dissimilar to having a massive step. Of course, if you do indeed have a character like that (and are allowing No Dice Roll Required on Active Defenses), you're down to having to drop their defense below 3 - meaning the character has to be massively outclassed to be harmed.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Ah, but Warp with Reliable 10 and No Die Roll Required can! Which will probably end up on somebody going that crazy on saying "Nope, can't hit me!"

Don't forget Danger Sense with NRR to make you always aware of attacks. And maybe upgrade it to Precognition to see if it's the best attack to dodge this turn.

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'd call that an exploit - the intent of the box implies that Active Defenses shouldn't be allowed to get No Die Roll Required, regardless of if it's one of the three defaults or something gained by another Advantage (as the Warp Dodge, or any of the various Power Parry type abilities).

Unless you were responding to the tactical nuke situation, but I'd say Reliable 10 Warp with No Dice Roll Required isn't that dissimilar to having a massive step. Of course, if you do indeed have a character like that (and are allowing No Dice Roll Required on Active Defenses), you're down to having to drop their defense below 3 - meaning the character has to be massively outclassed to be harmed.

Warp can only be used once per turn. It's upgrading Dodge to always work that's absurd. Considering you would need at least three levels for this to work, that's [180] to always dodge any attack, which is too good. But I was thinking that if you have to get 16 levels (as per No Nuisance Rolls) and then put NRR on top of that, that becomes 'Enhanced Dodge 16 (NRR +100%) [480]', which seems fine since you could do similar things for around 500pts.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by RyanW

From what I recall of 3e in play (didn't do a lot of playing until 4e came out, and my books turned to mush due to a leak), requiring a ready for axes was pretty meaningless. Anyone who didn't have the ST to ignore the ready didn't use an axe. And no one used polearms. An option that has all drawbacks and no benefits isn't an option. At most, it's a penalty you're sometimes stuck with because you have no choice.

And something that takes away from gameplay and reduces realism isn't going to be high on my list of house rules.

Huh I had not even thought abut the difference in ready 3e - 4e, cheers

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Huh I had not even thought abut the difference in ready 3e - 4e, cheers

We kind of discussed it recently over in this thread; I brought it up in the third post and I don't think the OP chimed in again the rest of the discussion. >.> You joined in at post #28. Remember your recent discussion over the "dwarven" weapon mod from DF? ;)

Yeah, for someone that knows 3e and was using (in that version of the system) an "Unbalanced" weapon, it took some getting used to not being able to just be strong enough to use something without having to re-ready it, including using it to attack and parry in the same turn without taking a specific combat maneuver.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Ah, but Warp with Reliable 10 and No Die Roll Required can! Which will probably end up on somebody going that crazy on saying "Nope, can't hit me!"

No, it will just get clobbered by a critical hit or surprise attack, assuming the GM allows it in the first place.

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by muduri

Aha! This is where it gets interesting. Or just Ptolemaically epicyclical, as just a convoluted way to avoid normal 4e, ha. The characters are half commoners ($800 as starting wealth for TL2.5, ha), who end up stuck with axes or polearms (since metal weapons and armor are 50% more expensive than normal), and half nobles (wealthy, $4000 or more), who can afford metal armor, swords etc. But +1 damage for every-second-turn melee weapons (axes), and +2 for every-third-turn (polearms), so not quite so terrible for hoi polloi. There's further down the rabbit hole to go but that's why there are still axe-users in this 3.9e game.

Actually, they all will use spears.