DF: Still can't challenge the Swashbuckler

[JMason]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

I'm still not sure you're doing it right. First, the fact that he's dual-wielding should be irrelevant: You can either make a rapid strike or you can make a dual-wielding attack, not both. Second, you explicitly state that he uses ONE deceptive attack. You realize that this is the only attack that benefits from being deceptive, right? The remaining attacks, unless they are also given a separate, deceptive option, are defended against normally.

He has Extra Attack (not DWA), he's turning one of them into a rapid strike. I've never seen anything that implies this isn't allowed.

Yes, he only rolls one deceptive attack per turn, but that is usually enough. With his high skill he often makes this an called shot to the leg or other area to take the monster out even if it isn't killed outright.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Enemies can retreat too. Enemies can have a high defense too. There are plenty of ways to defeat the swashbuckler. That doesn't seem to be the problem.

The problem, to my eye, is that the Knight is 50 points less than the Swashbuckler, and largely doesn't seem dissimilar (same race, same amount of ST. Why would he have the same amount of ST?) and that your casters have evolved to be support entirely.

Why? Alright, let's so something very basic: We create an opponent with a parry of 30. "WTF?" I can hear you saying, but here me out, as this is an exaggerated hypothetical. That huge parry will surely defeat the swashbuckler. There's no way for him to get past it (The first defense will be 25, then 29, 28, 27 and 26, assuming the monster is a weapon master with a two-handed weapon). He's unbeatable...

Except you can't parry an explosive fireball. You can't parry mind control. You can't parry Flesh to Stone. You can't parry a lightning bolt, and you can't even parry an ice dagger. The fact that this has never come up has both surprised me, and suggests to me that either the PCs haven't figured out this very basic concept yet, or everything you've thrown at them is more easily defeated by a quick blast of sword attacks than by spending 3 turns casting a fireball.

The SB bought up his ST by quite a bit (3 or 4 levels) as he's earned CP. The Knight is much lower for a few reasons: He is a replacement character (my rules are that if you create a new character it starts at the prior character's starting value + half of the CP gained on the prior character), that player's job often keeps him out, so he has missed more session than the other characters.

High defense monsters tend to neutralize most of the group, not just the SB. The Knight uses an axe, so he's out. The Cleric likes to get into the action when done buffing, so he MIGHT throw a sunbolt, but is just as likely to draw his morning star. That leaves it up to the wizard who again, is a missile spell guy. So this leads to very slow combats that the players get tired of.

Still, maybe a few more "slogs" is what it will take to get them to see that maybe diversity is a good thing (since my repeated telling them hasn't worked out so well).

Originally Posted by scc

From the sounds of things part of the issue is the other party members. Casters in GURPS really shouldn't have attack spells, they aren't very good bang for buck

I've said this to my group, I've posted lists of useful spells, I've all but forbidden missile spells, but it hasn't gotten through.


Again, thanks for the advice everyone. I've got this thread open in one window and am working on my next dungeon in the other!