Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by malloyd

They aren't the same thing. That is while you could take the Cosmic enhancement for an ability with the Cosmic power source, you don't have to, and certainly don't get it for free. The enhancement is badly named, call it Rules Modification instead if it bothers you.

Not exactly. According to RAW, if you have a +50% Cosmic Power modifier the first 50% Cosmic enhancement on that power is already paid for. However, I would prefer to be able to easily separate Cosmic beings from those beings with a few powers that break the rules.

In my setting there are beings with Cosmic power modifiers. These can be called Cosmic Beings. Just having a power with Cosmic on it is usually used for bending the rules. I would rather have two names for the enhancement, but I know the difference.

I also use several tiers:

1. Cosmic - The true power behind the universe.
2. Divine - This is the power modifier for gods and their highest minions.
3. Spirit - This is the power modifier for spirits and the lesser servants of the gods.
4. Mundane - This is an unwritten power modifier for raw advantages.

Magic, Chi, and Psionic (in my setting they are three words for the same thing) are considered Mundane powers.

There is only one PC in my current game who is a Cosmic Being, but she's young and doesn't really understand her full abilities.

[Michael Thayne]

Oooh, I just thought of another good one: Cosmic Altered Time Rate: you don't need to slow down to pull off tricks that depend on others' reactions, including feints in combat (I just realized I once let a player get away with feinting then attacking that using normal ATR, it's a really useful trick).

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Or any See Invisible with the True Sight enhancement. You'd need another layer of Cosmic to get around that.

Nothing I can find in Powers suggests True Sight works that way.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Oooh, I just thought of another good one: Cosmic Altered Time Rate: you don't need to slow down to pull off tricks that depend on others' reactions, including feints in combat (I just realized I once let a player get away with feinting then attacking that using normal ATR, it's a really useful trick).

I think that would be a rather expensive Cosmic enhancement. The rationale for not being able to use feinting and ATR is that the foe isn't able to see your trickiness because you're moving too quickly. So to allow this to work, the Cosmic enhancement needs to make the foe see things faster.

One thing that has confused me: a feint works with Extra Attack and with Rapid Strike and AOA (double) so why wouldn't it work with at least ATR 1?

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I think that would be a rather expensive Cosmic enhancement. The rationale for not being able to use feinting and ATR is that the foe isn't able to see your trickiness because you're moving too quickly. So to allow this to work, the Cosmic enhancement needs to make the foe see things faster.

One thing that has confused me: a feint works with Extra Attack and with Rapid Strike and AOA (double) so why wouldn't it work with at least ATR 1?

Nah, I think +50% would do the trick. The standard for pricing Cosmic modifiers isn't "how big is the thing that would have to happen in-universe for this to make sense?" but "how unfair is this to whoever the ability is being used against?" The feint trick is powerful, but I don't think it's worth more than 50 points per level of ATR.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Nah, I think +50% would do the trick. The standard for pricing Cosmic modifiers isn't "how big is the thing that would have to happen in-universe for this to make sense?" but "how unfair is this to whoever the ability is being used against?" The feint trick is powerful, but I don't think it's worth more than 50 points per level of ATR.

As a GM I wouldn't let it go for that little. The +50% level is for bending the rules a bit. Allowing combat actions that take a full turn to take a fraction of a turn is worth more than that.

For example, a true martial arts master uses deceptive attacks almost all the time. To go against the limitation that ATR brings would be a large advantage to the master.

Let's say that he has a skill of 22 and TBAM. He gets to use 10 of his skill in deceptive attacks or rapid strikes.

Now give him ATR. His deceptive attacks and feints no longer work. To allow them to work isn't just a small thing, it's a huge thing. Of course, even without this, he could usually just attack so many times that his foe doesn't have much in the way of defenses after the forth strike in the master's turn, let alone the fourth strike in the master's second turn.

I'm going to have to think about this. Using ATR tends to make a master somewhat weaker on the offense.

[Nosforontu]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

As a GM I wouldn't let it go for that little. The +50% level is for bending the rules a bit. Allowing combat actions that take a full turn to take a fraction of a turn is worth more than that.

For example, a true martial arts master uses deceptive attacks almost all the time. To go against the limitation that ATR brings would be a large advantage to the master.

Sure but that 50% enhancement is worth typically a +12 to to the target skill allowing 2-4 extra attacks instead at the same to hit probability or -6 to the targets defense each round instead with deceptive attack.

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Now give him ATR. His deceptive attacks and feints no longer work. To allow them to work isn't just a small thing, it's a huge thing.

Its a 100 point investement on top of the DX, Weapon Master and skill bump which has the immediate side effect of turning off his feints/deceptive attack arguably making him less effective at attacking, does not strike me as a small thing. Especially as I said the advantage might make him less likely to succed than if he simply tossed on another 5 points of DX or 25 points of skill. Allowing him to drop another 50 points per level of the advantage into rebuying some of that lost utility is probably not all that cheap or unbroken.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

As a GM I wouldn't let it go for that little. The +50% level is for bending the rules a bit. Allowing combat actions that take a full turn to take a fraction of a turn is worth more than that.

For example, a true martial arts master uses deceptive attacks almost all the time. To go against the limitation that ATR brings would be a large advantage to the master.

Let's say that he has a skill of 22 and TBAM. He gets to use 10 of his skill in deceptive attacks or rapid strikes.

Now give him ATR. His deceptive attacks and feints no longer work. To allow them to work isn't just a small thing, it's a huge thing. Of course, even without this, he could usually just attack so many times that his foe doesn't have much in the way of defenses after the forth strike in the master's turn, let alone the fourth strike in the master's second turn.

I'm going to have to think about this. Using ATR tends to make a master somewhat weaker on the offense.

Is it explicitly written that ATR rules out Deceptive Attack? Because that would be really gamebreaking dumb, and Deceptive Attack doesn't rely on waiting for the target's reaction.

[Nosforontu]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Is it explicitly written that ATR rules out Deceptive Attack? Because that would be really gamebreaking dumb, and Deceptive Attack doesn't rely on waiting for the target's reaction.

It doesn't look like it, as I read it in characters all it prevents is influence rolls and feints (unless that is all you do in the round).

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Uh...that's what Zeroed already does.

Not exactly. The police will generally ignore you, even if you've been brought in. However the records still remain. If you make yourself high profile enough, you might not be zeroed any more.

With Cosmic +50%, I'd have the records erased. With +100%, I'd even have people's memories erased, though I'd have it work on both friend and foe alike unless you went for 150%. There was a neat character from the web novel Worm that had that effect on people.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Not exactly. The police will generally ignore you, even if you've been brought in. However the records still remain. If you make yourself high profile enough, you might not be zeroed any more.

Read this old post of Kromm's on Zeroed. By that ruling, it seems to only require a small degree of care to maintain your off-the-books status.

With Cosmic +50%, I'd have the records erased. With +100%, I'd even have people's memories erased, though I'd have it work on both friend and foe alike unless you went for 150%. There was a neat character from the web novel Worm that had that effect on people.

I seem to remember such an Enhancement being proposed before. I don't much like the idea of turning a Social ad into an Exotic one resembling Mind Control, especially not for such a low cost... maybe with a Godlike Cosmic (+300%) *shrug*