Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

And said armor won't take damage from said attacks.

Unless the attacks are corrosive. Which is a generally accurate description of long-term burning damage.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Optional rules.
But even that one I think covers small perforations rather than actual damage like how cat scratches may break the skin but don't come close to causing 1 point of damage.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Plate armor gets turned into scrap metal by cat scratches?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Unless the attacks are corrosive. Which is a generally accurate description of long-term burning damage.

That hardly seems correct. You could bake your steel mail in an oven for a while and it's not going to become flimsy and fall apart.

Damage vs DR is a bad model for non-fast thermal effects.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

That hardly seems correct. You could bake your steel mail in an oven for a while and it's not going to become flimsy and fall apart.

Unless you expose it to temperatures above the melting point of steel, at which point it will in fact ablate rather rapidly.

However, the other mechanic is heat conduction, and DR is a lousy model for figuring out the R-value of some heat shielding.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Unless the attacks are corrosive. Which is a generally accurate description of long-term burning damage.

Not in gurps terms. It's either corrosive or it's not. Burning alone is not.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Plate armor gets turned into scrap metal by cat scratches?

No, but cat scratches penetrate human flesh without causing HP injury.

I think the issue is conflating DR of worn objects vs. inherent DR. But never mind.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Unless you expose it to temperatures above the melting point of steel, at which point it will in fact ablate rather rapidly.

However, the other mechanic is heat conduction, and DR is a lousy model for figuring out the R-value of some heat shielding.

Real world thermodynamics is far too complex for modern science to fully understand let alone playable game rules.

True, aerogel has incredible heat shielding properties but can't be said to have much DR.
I think we've all seen how slowly ice melts under a blowtorch compared to lead.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Anthony

So what? Most personal armor DR also lacks the Ablative limitation.

No, DR without such limitations will be as non-ablative as armor which lacks such limitations.

Which is completely non-ablative to anything that's not Corrosive. So, until there's a new edition of Basic that redefines long-term heat/fire exposure to be in effect, Corrosive, unlimited DR - that's innate to your body, not the consequence of something you're wearing - will protect you from it indefinitely.

Same deal with swarms crawling through armor. If your DR is part of your bodily makeup, say you're an iron golem, there's nothing for the little buggers to crawl under, or at any rate no way for them to get through.

Bottom line, the Damage Resistance does what it says.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

No, but cat scratches penetrate human flesh without causing HP injury.

I think the issue is conflating DR of worn objects vs. inherent DR. But never mind.

Exactly my point. Armor that you wear, that's gear, has certain inherent limitations to it. Swarms can crawl through it given enough time, certain types of damage (other than Corrosive) are assumed to get you through any gaps in it, etc. Damage Reistance you buy as an advantage with CP, however, does EXACTLY what the advantage text says (which includes the eyes being a vulnerable spot, etc.) and is not limited AT ALL except with regard to the Limitations you actually take on it. If you didn't take Ablative or Semi-Ablative, and the damage type isn't Corrosive, it continues to protect you to its full value indefinitely.

And while cyclic damage may be a kind of wonky way of representing damage from heat/fire, that and FP loss are the two ways we have from the rule book of dealing with it. Furthermore, the fact that the fire elementals from Dungeon Fantasy are presented as being able to live in both their home environments and the dungeon environment with just Immunity to Metabolic Hazards and DR good against fire/heat, but no Temperature Tolerance whatsoever, means that is all they need and TT is superfluous once you have that combination. Otherwise, logically, if the idea of applying FP losses from temperature outside one's comfort zone to permanent HT instead to creatures with ItMH were correct, then even with the +15 to HT for resistance rolls, these creatures would be rolling 18s often enough that they would pretty rapidly die either in their home environment or in the dungeon - but there are no notes about them being unable to survive for long periods of time in either environment.

Anybody who thinks I'm wrong is free to submit errata for those creatures explaining that they either need to have Temperature Tolerance up the wazoo or a note about their survivability.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Exactly my point. Armor that you wear, that's gear, has certain inherent limitations to it. Swarms can crawl through it given enough time, certain types of damage (other than Corrosive) are assumed to get you through any gaps in it, etc. Damage Reistance you buy as an advantage with CP, however, does EXACTLY what the advantage text says (which includes the eyes being a vulnerable spot, etc.) and is not limited AT ALL except with regard to the Limitations you actually take on it. If you didn't take Ablative or Semi-Ablative, and the damage type isn't Corrosive, it continues to protect you to its full value indefinitely.

And while cyclic damage may be a kind of wonky way of representing damage from heat/fire, that and FP loss are the two ways we have from the rule book of dealing with it. Furthermore, the fact that the fire elementals from Dungeon Fantasy are presented as being able to live in both their home environments and the dungeon environment with just Immunity to Metabolic Hazards and DR good against fire/heat, but no Temperature Tolerance whatsoever, means that is all they need and TT is superfluous once you have that combination.

It's worth noting at this point that many of the cyber shells in Shell tech have DR, Immunity to Metabolic Hazards AND Temperature Tolerance. The Baikal Cryobot has DR 30, the Machine trait (includes Immunity to Metabolic Hazards) and Temperature Tolerance 25.