Which wounds bleed?

BraselC5048 · 02-24-2014, 06:41 PM

Anyway, quick question on some borderline cases. First off, what about crushing, major, skull wounds? Or at least crushing skull wounds that also inflict at least full HP of injury in one hit (i.e. reduce an uninjured person to 0 HP or less)? I could see where there could be bleeding for the second category (full HP) from such a major blow to the head, likely fracturing the skull at least.

If they do, I would rule that there isn't a -5 to bleeding rolls from location (from High Tech).

Second off, does falling damage (major wound) bleed? At least if it inflects a major would on the torso (after limbs, if any)? I'd say yes? Otherwise high (~40-50 ft) falls aren't particularly deadly, since they don't do enough damage to force a HT roll to stay alive.

I rolled a series of test cases for falls a long time ago (45 ft), and very few actually died on impact, while with bleeding, about half died on the way to the hospital. Which is actually a pretty close match to real-world statistics (which I got from a RPG mechanics site). And if it does bleed, does First Aid work, or do you need Surgery?

Ulzgoroth · 02-24-2014, 08:02 PM

Pretty much straight GM discretion.

My suggestion would be that any cutting, piercing, or impaling injury and most burning injuries should, and many crushing injuries should as well.

Deciding whether a crushing injury should bleed might not just be a matter of damage...a Major Wound probably should bleed internally regardless, but a 'crushing' wound involving a hard edge, like a mace head, teeth, or blunt claws (or any number of household objects) can easily draw some blood without that level of impact.

Flyndaran · 02-24-2014, 09:23 PM

My head gushed blood like a fountain when I fell on it in kindergarten. I felt little pain, while the teacher rushed me off to eventually get a few stitches.
I doubt it was really more than a single point of damage.

gilbertocarlos · 02-24-2014, 11:07 PM

House rule: Crushing wounds bleed, but with +4 to the roll, so, a small wound is no problem except for an elderly person, however, a big hit is a large problem. Also, dismemberment bleeds without the +4.

David Johnston2 · 02-24-2014, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

My head gushed blood like a fountain when I fell on it in kindergarten. I felt little pain, while the teacher rushed me off to eventually get a few stitches.
I doubt it was really more than a single point of damage.

Head wounds are notorious for that.

Tomsdad · 02-25-2014, 06:25 AM

I'd argue any cutting or impaling wounds that are worth the name (i.e leave 1+ injury) bleed.

My personal rule of thumb for crushing is anything major wound or larger yes.

Which functionally means the vast majority of wounds that get through the skull as well. (Brains bleed but not in abstract terms much more than any thing else with large blood vessels, however it really doesn't take much bleeding damage from either loss of blood or build up of blood pressure to do a lot of damage quickly so the end result is inter cranial bleeding is bad enough to be worth making a point about).

Specific bleeding rules from MA apply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

My head gushed blood like a fountain when I fell on it in kindergarten. I felt little pain, while the teacher rushed me off to eventually get a few stitches.
I doubt it was really more than a single point of damage.

Scalp wounds do bleed a lot relative to their depth / length even if the skull isn't fractured, but there is an overall limit to how much they will bleed. Which is why as a child (children are susceptible to bleeding out) you we're sent for stitches rather than for an IV.

Varyon · 02-25-2014, 08:53 AM

The way I'd rule it, for gritty realism, is that any Major Wound bleeds internally, requiring Surgery (or natural recovery, which a good physician can assist with). Non-major cutting, piercing, and impaling wounds all bleed externally. Toxic damage can only cause internal bleeding (that is, on a Major Wound). Burning, corrosion, and crushing are a bit of an oddity here; while I would normally go with no bleeding, reduced bleeding (like gilbertocarlos' suggestion) may indeed be more appropriate.

EDIT: It should be noted that face/skull wounds bleed far worse than they really should. I think HT and/or MA has these wounds bleed at a greater frequency, although I'm not certain. Regardless, damage that gets to the skull (that is, gets past any armor) but doesn't bypass its DR probably should still cause bleeding.

02-24-2014, 06:41 PM	#1
BraselC5048 Join Date: Oct 2012	Which wounds bleed? Anyway, quick question on some borderline cases. First off, what about crushing, major, skull wounds? Or at least crushing skull wounds that also inflict at least full HP of injury in one hit (i.e. reduce an uninjured person to 0 HP or less)? I could see where there could be bleeding for the second category (full HP) from such a major blow to the head, likely fracturing the skull at least. If they do, I would rule that there isn't a -5 to bleeding rolls from location (from High Tech). Second off, does falling damage (major wound) bleed? At least if it inflects a major would on the torso (after limbs, if any)? I'd say yes? Otherwise high (~40-50 ft) falls aren't particularly deadly, since they don't do enough damage to force a HT roll to stay alive. I rolled a series of test cases for falls a long time ago (45 ft), and very few actually died on impact, while with bleeding, about half died on the way to the hospital. Which is actually a pretty close match to real-world statistics (which I got from a RPG mechanics site). And if it does bleed, does First Aid work, or do you need Surgery?

02-24-2014, 08:02 PM	#2
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Which wounds bleed? Pretty much straight GM discretion. My suggestion would be that any cutting, piercing, or impaling injury and most burning injuries should, and many crushing injuries should as well. Deciding whether a crushing injury should bleed might not just be a matter of damage...a Major Wound probably should bleed internally regardless, but a 'crushing' wound involving a hard edge, like a mace head, teeth, or blunt claws (or any number of household objects) can easily draw some blood without that level of impact. __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

02-24-2014, 09:23 PM	#3
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: Which wounds bleed? My head gushed blood like a fountain when I fell on it in kindergarten. I felt little pain, while the teacher rushed me off to eventually get a few stitches. I doubt it was really more than a single point of damage. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

02-24-2014, 11:07 PM	#4
gilbertocarlos Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil	Re: Which wounds bleed? House rule: Crushing wounds bleed, but with +4 to the roll, so, a small wound is no problem except for an elderly person, however, a big hit is a large problem. Also, dismemberment bleeds without the +4. __________________ I've revised the Low Tech weapons table: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=112532

02-25-2014, 08:53 AM	#7
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: Which wounds bleed? The way I'd rule it, for gritty realism, is that any Major Wound bleeds internally, requiring Surgery (or natural recovery, which a good physician can assist with). Non-major cutting, piercing, and impaling wounds all bleed externally. Toxic damage can only cause internal bleeding (that is, on a Major Wound). Burning, corrosion, and crushing are a bit of an oddity here; while I would normally go with no bleeding, reduced bleeding (like gilbertocarlos' suggestion) may indeed be more appropriate. EDIT: It should be noted that face/skull wounds bleed far worse than they really should. I think HT and/or MA has these wounds bleed at a greater frequency, although I'm not certain. Regardless, damage that gets to the skull (that is, gets past any armor) but doesn't bypass its DR probably should still cause bleeding.