Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I think the logic here is something like terrestrial tissues are mostly made of stuff that would be Combustable in oxygen too, if it weren't for the fact they have mechanisms to prevent that because they evolved in oxygen. And even then some of them like trees might still have it.

Terrestrial tissues are mostly made of water, which isn't combustible in oxygen ever. There's really not much trick past that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Terrestrial tissues are mostly made of water, which isn't combustible in oxygen ever.

And evaporates fast enough to prevent any of the more flammable substances from reaching its ignition point until almost all the water is gone.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

And evaporates fast enough to prevent any of the more flammable substances from reaching its ignition point until almost all the water is gone.

Which does of course point to how to be easier to ignite - have a biochemistry with less thermal buffering short of the ignition point.

That doesn't really have anything to do with what type of atmosphere you're in though.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Which does of course point to how to be easier to ignite - have a biochemistry with less thermal buffering short of the ignition point.

That doesn't really have anything to do with what type of atmosphere you're in though.

A lifeform with silicon polymer base and fluorine as its oxidant likely wouldn't contain much water, and might not have much thermal buffering in a terrestrial environment.

"In a terrestrial environment" is of course the joker in this deck. What if we put lifeforms into a nonterrestrial environment? If you put human beings into an environment where rock is molten and there's fluorine in the air, we might burst into flame. There's no statistic on a normal GURPS character sheet that even vaguely reflects this vulnerability. I think you just have to figure that GURPS isn't intended to be quite that Generic.

Bill Stoddard

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

I'm basing it on having asked Kromm, during the last temperature tolerance thread:



Because Immunity to Metabolic Hazards makes you immune to the metabolic effects of temperature, it doesn't make you immune to the structural effects, e.g., freezing solid, melting, and catching fire.

If your Damage Resistance is not Limited, it should protect against these, regardless of whether they're coming as a result of the environment or a heat or cold Innate Attack.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Please explain/justify how.

Immunity to heat damage (i.e. structural protein failure) is not the same as Immunity to heat exchange with the environment (changing the temperature of body tissues) or having infinite specific heat. Your proteins can remain in the correct shape and phase no matter how hot they get, but they still get hot. If they are hot and the oxygen is hot, and the other conditions of reaction are met, the reaction happens unless the proteins are also immune to fire.

Immunity just protects you from heat stroke, protein denaturing, spontaneous combustion, drying out into a prune, etc. when you become hotter. It lets you continue your own vital biochemical reactions at high temperatures that should shut them down. It stops parts of you from melting or evaporating.

That advantage you want is Temperature Control, which lets you eliminate heat itself. Or possibly a custom advantage Immune to Heat Exchange which would also give immunity to effects of cold.

The proteins are part of you, have the full Temperature Tolerance, and therefore are not oxidized below the top of your TT range - because that would be damage, and you are not damaged by temperatures below that point.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

If your Damage Resistance is not Limited, it should protect against these, regardless of whether they're coming as a result of the environment or a heat or cold Innate Attack.

Armor isn't really all that relevant to slow environmental damage (it's generally lousy insulation), though it typically has enough heat capacity to be relevant against attacks that occur on the time scale of combat (i.e. it's fine for burning attacks to be stopped by armor).

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

A lifeform with silicon polymer base and fluorine as its oxidant likely wouldn't contain much water, and might not have much thermal buffering in a terrestrial environment.

Having a lack of thermal buffering is only important when you're being exposed to temperatures higher than your ignition point in the current environment, though. A silicon/fluorine critter is likely to have a very high ignition point in an oxygen atmosphere, it seems to me. Very high compared to temperatures they're likely to encounter in that environment, that is.

I don't think thermal buffering should depend on environment except insofar as that changes where the ignition point is.

Originally Posted by whswhs

"In a terrestrial environment" is of course the joker in this deck. What if we put lifeforms into a nonterrestrial environment? If you put human beings into an environment where rock is molten and there's fluorine in the air, we might burst into flame.

Well, at that temperature they'd be lethally burned, dessicated, and eventually burst into flame in a terrestrial atmosphere. I'm not sure in exactly what order. The fluorine (depending on concentration) probably makes them easier to ignite, but what with the rapidly being seared to death your subject is unlikely to care much.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Armor isn't really all that relevant to slow environmental damage (it's generally lousy insulation), though it typically has enough heat capacity to be relevant against attacks that occur on the time scale of combat (i.e. it's fine for burning attacks to be stopped by armor).

I'm not talking about armor you wear, though, I'm talking about DR bought with CP. Innate DR (as opposed to gear) need not be defined as an external shell over more vulnerable inside bits, after all. Innate DR (Limited:Fire/Heat) could easily represent every single bit of your body being resistant to direct damage from fire or heat*, and as Kromm notes in a bit quoted earlier in this thread, about DR 10 will suffice to protect you against normal flame or fuel-primed flame, and even likely against most furnaces; DR 20 would encompass even more.

I'm saying that unless your DR is provided by external gear, or if bought with CP, further limited to represent being an external coating of some kind, that protection is indefinite and will allow you to hang out in that fiery environment, or pool of lava, for as long as you like. That's as far as the direct damage effects go, of course; to avoid the FP or HT loss, you still need Immunity and/or Temperature Tolerance.

*Some examples of this being elementals (esp. fire and earth ones), many kinds of golems, and supers that transform into stone or metal form.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

I'm not talking about armor you wear, though, I'm talking about DR bought with CP.

DR bought with character points does not claim to differ from any other sort of DR.