Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?

[gilbertocarlos]

So, let's imagine a robot character, he is made of steel and has HT12, so he could easily live anywhere from -200Fº to 1600ºC(arbitrary numbers, but it is around this range), so, he would need 145 points into Temperature Tolerance(since each level gives 12Fº and the base is only 55º).

Is that right? 145 points just to resist hot and cold climates?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

So, let's imagine a robot character, he is made of steel and has HT12, so he could easily live anywhere from -200Fº to 1600ºC(arbitrary numbers, but it is around this range), so, he would need 145 points into Temperature Tolerance(since each level gives 12Fº and the base is only 55º).

Is that right? 145 points just to resist hot and cold climates?

Looks like. And no, it doesn't make sense. It's actually a problem shared by the radiation, and to some degree poisoning rules - the effort put into making heat exhaustion and frostbite more realistic has made them such special snowflakes than normal defenses don't work right - even normal defenses against essentially the same kind of damage. Characters who can shower with dragonfire can die of heatstroke. Ditto for blasters and radiation.

[ErhnamDJ]

Yes, it is very expensive. In a thread a while back, we came up with some house rules for this. Here's that thread.

[scc]

I'd interrupt the temperature tolerance advantage as being relative to your race and your race has a feature that defines it's temperature tolerance

[hal]

That is one of the biggest issues facing GURPS 4e right now as compared against GURPS 3e. Before, if you spent 70% of your character points on basics, and 30% on the special abilities - you as the player, had to have GM permission to purchase those special abilities worth about 30 to 50 points for a 100 point character. If you played a mundane character without special abilities, those extra 30 points wouldn't necessarily gain you too much of an edge.

Now? With those special abilities costing 50 to 75 points, a "mundane" character can really "Buff up" with higher attributes and a lot of the more cheap advantages in larger quantities - points that other players have to spend a LOT upon in order to get some paltry advantage that really does NOT impact upon the game in a major way.

What would be interesting overall, is to compile a survey of characters that are actually built for various campaigns - where people find out what advantages/disadvantages are chosen often, and which ones are TOO expensive. All point cost totals are, is a pricing scheme not unlike that which is used for food at a supermarket. If the item is too pricey, it doesn't get purchased. If the item isn't pricey enough, it gets purchased often. Role playing games, unlike supermarkets, don't have a limited supply of "traits" and consequently, there is no law of supply and demand type of mechanic for determining the true worth (to the buyers) of any given advantage/disadvantage.

GM's should raise and lower prices as they see fit when they do not agree with the pricing ladder for the various items.

Case in point? Take the common sense advantage. It is entirely dependent upon the IQ of the character in question to determine just how effective it is. Should an IQ 10 character have the same pricing cost for Common Sense as an IQ 14 character with Common sense? The IQ 10 character, only has it work successfully for him 50% of the time. The IQ 14 character has it work successfully for him roughly 90% of the time - yet both players paid the same price for the advantage, both characters abide by the same rules for the advantage. You can argue that the character's players chose to have a lower IQ and thereby lowered the advantage's effectiveness, but that argues the point even more clearly to the extent that both versions of the advantages are not equally effective, despite having an equal cost for the advantage itself.

So, is Temperature Tolerance really WORTH the points in play if it never really affects the play flow? Is it fair to charge a character for Temperature Tolerance if the other characters are never hampered by its lack - because they can buy still suits (Ala DUNE) or other equipment to handle the temperature issues?

In the end, doesn't eat/doesn't breathe is over priced simply because most characters CAN'T take the advantage without suffering from other side effects of not having a "LIVING" character. Doesn't enjoy life's pleasures should be an equal and off-setting disadvantage to be applied with "Doesn't Eat/Breathe". It is a "curio" type of thing, and shouldn't really be a major cost item/ <shrug>

In the end? As GM, you can ALWAYS change the price and say "This is MY game, and the little men in black from SJGames aren't going to take my books away from me if I modify the game to suit my tastes."

[martinl]

Originally Posted by hal

GM's should raise and lower prices as they see fit when they do not agree with the pricing ladder for the various items.

I'd go further and say that CP-based char creation, while a fun mini-game in itself, is not required at all as long as there is a good sanity check on character build somewhere.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

So, let's imagine a robot character, he is made of steel and has HT12, so he could easily live anywhere from -200Fº to 1600ºC(arbitrary numbers, but it is around this range), so, he would need 145 points into Temperature Tolerance(since each level gives 12Fº and the base is only 55º).

Is that right? 145 points just to resist hot and cold climates?

Made completely of steel? He has no temperature-sensitive internal electronics? (Try putting your laptop in an oven and see how well it functions.) No internal lubricants whose properties or composition change? His power source isn't temperature-sensitive at all?

What you're talking about is a very high level of thermal systems hardening, much more than most real machines have.

Incidentally, GURPS Underground Adventures has rules for rescaling TT for beings who have different native temperatures. . . .

Bill Stoddard

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Incidentally, GURPS Underground Adventures has rules for rescaling TT for beings who have different native temperatures. . . .

But.. isn't that a DF book? I'd hope that generic rules would be put in more generic supplements.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Sufficient levels of temperature tolerance should make you immune to burning attacks that are below your level of tolerance, but most attacks that won't be stopped by around DR 10-12 vs burning are ridiculously hot (2,000F will protect you from most ordinary fires, include napalm, but not WP or ultratech energy weapons).

Fire hurts with more than heat. Being on fire means your body is being chemically altered by oxidation, which is essentially corrosion damage. Being in or near a fire usually means toxic smoke in the lungs and eyes, which is a poison effect. Being enclosed in a sealed building/room with a fire can just suffocate you by taking all the oxygen.

Resistance or immunity to fire should grant some heat and smoke resistance, but resistance to heat should grant only a little reduction in fire damage.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

But.. isn't that a DF book?

No. It's a standalone book about underground adventuring in general.

I'd hope that generic rules would be put in more generic supplements.

GURPS Temperature Tolerance is probably way too specific to ever actually exist and GURPS Extreme Environments is probably way too broad...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Being on fire means your body is being chemically altered by oxidation

Uh, no. If you've got enough temperature tolerance to resist heat, you're not being oxidized to any meaningful degree either.