Way to inflict more dmg in Melee (Martial Arts and Technical Grappling)

[TheOneRonin]

I bet you all are getting tired of my posts about melee combat, but I'm not the easily discouraged type!

So I've played relatively few games where melee combat played any significant role, so I don't have a high level of expertise with nuances of hand-to-hand combat in GURPS 4E.

So having said that, I'm looking for suggestions methods for increasing the amount of damage I can deliver when fighting UNARMED.

I'm already familiar with several options:
-AoA: Strong and Committed attack: Strong
-Rapid Strike and AoA (Double) for attacking twice
-Targeted attacks
-Throws from locks (quickly becoming my favorite)
-Using grappling CP to add to dmg for other grappling attacks and strikes

And if anyone is curious, the character I'm playing has the following:
-DX and ST of 14
-Judo 20
-Karate 20
-Arm Lock 24 (maxed)

A lot of our fights have been with relatively unskilled mooks (ST10, Brawl 12), but lots of them, so I have the need to dispatch them quickly.

Also, I have to stay mobile...if I get stuck for more than a turn or two with one opponent, I'll quickly get flanked.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

-Arm Lock 24 (maxed)

A lot of our fights have been with relatively unskilled mooks (ST10, Brawl 12), but lots of them, so I have the need to dispatch them quickly.

Also, I have to stay mobile...if I get stuck for more than a turn or two with one opponent, I'll quickly get flanked.

You want Head Lock, because a Throw from Lock to the NECK does swing damage, x1.5 for neck location. I'm pretty sure it's the most dangerous unarmed move in GURPS.

[chris1982]

With the +damage bonus from Karate delivering kicks in boots should dish out quite some decent damage...

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

A lot of our fights have been with relatively unskilled mooks (ST10, Brawl 12), but lots of them, so I have the need to dispatch them quickly.

Also, I have to stay mobile...if I get stuck for more than a turn or two with one opponent, I'll quickly get flanked.

Aha.

First rule when it comes to tactics: Focus on the goal, not the implementation. You've asked how to improve your damage when what you really need is a way to dispatch an opponent quickly. In fact, you can dispatch opponents quickly without doing lots of damage. You don't need to kill your foe to remove him from a fight, particularly the way you're describing fighting foes.

First, if someone falls, they need a minimum of 2 turns to get back up. If you stun someone, they automatically fall, and they need to recover before they can get back up. Forcing an opponent to spend 3-4 turns dealing with the consequences of one an attack is a huge return on your investment.

Any attack to the face, skull, eye or vitals that does any damage at all instantly forces a stun check. Any attack to the face that would normally cause a stun check does so at -5, and any attack to the skull that does the same applies a -10. Thus, a quick punch of quick to the face is going to floor most of those mooks and leave them out of the fight for 3-4 turns. If you want to make a follow-up attack, they defend at -6 (-2 from being on the ground and -4 from being stunned), which allows you to line up a much more powerful attack.

Similarly, any time you've successfully defended against an attack with your Judo, you can initiate a Judo throw the next turn, which will floor most people (possibly more than one, if you aim it right and get lucky). This probably won't stun someone, but it puts them out of the fight for a couple of turns, and it gives them a -2 to defend against any follow up attacks you make.

Crushing damage does x1.5 if you attack the neck. A swift stamp kick (which can be done with Karate) inflicts more damage than a standard kick AND is ideally suited for finish off someone who has been downed. If you're particularly nasty, you can go for a stamp kick to the skull, but you need to get past that DR of 2: attacks that generally do 1 to 2 damage are always better against the neck. Attacks that do 3 damage will do 4 to the skull or 4 to the neck. Attacks that do 4+ damage are better against the skull, but the skull may have additional DR from a helmet, and is -2 to hit, so think about it for a bit.

You're already noted throwing from locks. I think this takes a little too long: You need to parry, then lock and then throw, a minimum of 2 turns (or you can grapple, lock and then throw, which is 3 turns). It will also floor someone, probably stun them, and removes their arm, which should effectively remove most mooks from a fight: Any additional combat will be at -4 for their off-hand, and if they have a two-handed weapon, they can't really use it anymore. So they need to spend 3-4 turns getting back into the fight, where they won't fight effectively. Frankly, I just have mooks leave after this, because they're not paid well enough to throw themselves on the swords of the heroes once their arm has been spirally fractured by a casual throw from a hero.

I note that you don't mention several other Martial Arts techniques that improve damage. I've noted Stamp Kicks. There are also exotic hand strikes (+1 damage but you risk hurting yourself if you hit tough targets, so focus on fleshy points, like the neck), and if you have cinematic techniques available, you can pick up lethal hand strikes or lethal kicks, which will let you inflict piercing damage, which means you can go for the eyes and the vitals.

And, of course, there's pressure secrets, which doubles your unarmed damage. But remember, it's not really about damage nearly as it is about leveraging it in the right place. And you're not trying to kill people, you're trying to keep them from killing you and/or getting between you and your objective. The best thing about playing the strategy I suggest above is that if the GM is the sort to throw fanatic hordes that refuse to quit before they've been killed, then you force him to play whack-a-mole with you as you keep downing people you've already downed until he gets the point and realizes that sometimes, outclassed mooks will just stay down, close their eyes, and hope you'll think they're dead.

[TheOneRonin]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

You want Head Lock, because a Throw from Lock to the NECK does swing damage, x1.5 for neck location. I'm pretty sure it's the most dangerous unarmed move in GURPS.

Thanks Doug, I hadn't thought of putting those two together.

Is there away to do this in a single turn? I think grabbing parry limits you to grabbing whichever limb is used to attack, so I can't use that.

Does that mean this requires two turns: 1 to grapple the neck, and the 2nd one to combo the lock & throw? (or combo the grapple & lock, then throw with next turn)

Also, does a throw from a head lock bypass the double CP damage cap?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

Thanks Doug, I hadn't thought of putting those two together.

Is there away to do this in a single turn? I think grabbing parry limits you to grabbing whichever limb is used to attack, so I can't use that.

Does that mean this requires two turns: 1 to grapple the neck, and the 2nd one to combo the lock & throw? (or combo the grapple & lock, then throw with next turn)

Also, does a throw from a head lock bypass the double CP damage cap?

You still have to spend the CP to get the base damage, but the extra injury to the neck comes for free.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

Is there away to do this in a single turn? I think grabbing parry limits you to grabbing whichever limb is used to attack, so I can't use that.

Nope! While the CP inflicted are constant (and low):

"Choose a legal parry and defense option (if desired); you
can capture a striking arm (or weapon!), grab a kick, slip in
and grapple the torso (see Retreat Options, Martial Arts, p.
123), etc. Success grapples your foe with the limbs used, but
inflicts CP based on 0.5¥ST regardless."

You're free to slip in and grab some other location, but I'd give a location penalty: -3 for the neck.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

Does that mean this requires two turns: 1 to grapple the neck, and the 2nd one to combo the lock & throw? (or combo the grapple & lock, then throw with next turn)

You'll need to talk to your GM, but the box on p. 25 covers this.

You might want to strongly consider Extra Attack otherwise, which will allow all kinds of goodness each round. A Lock/Throw combo (defensive combos use Riposte, not Combo rules) would be allowable, though realistically it can take a while (next turn is pretty accurate) to grab, throw, and land the guy.

[TheOneRonin]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Aha.

First rule when it comes to tactics: Focus on the goal, not the implementation. You've asked how to improve your damage when what you really need is a way to dispatch an opponent quickly. In fact, you can dispatch opponents quickly without doing lots of damage. You don't need to kill your foe to remove him from a fight, particularly the way you're describing fighting foes.

I 100% agree. I'm well aware that raw damage isn't the only way to deal with enemies. In fact, a core part of my strategy is Sweeps, Throws, and Posture changes to take them temporarily out of the fight. However, some of the bad guys will eventually pass their HT checks and recover from stun, especially those still in positive HP.

In cases where I just need to buy time or delay my opponents long enough to escape, putting them on the ground has worked flawlessly. But in scenarios where I have to make sure multiple enemies do not get back up (either by beating them into unconsciousness or killing them), I've found that the more damage I am capable of doing, the faster I can get to my goal.

Any attack to the face, skull, eye or vitals that does any damage at all instantly forces a stun check.

Any attack? Which book is that in? I completely missed this. I thought it had to be a Major Wound to those areas to force a Stun Check. Do you have a page number I can reference?

A swift stamp kick (which can be done with Karate) inflicts more damage than a standard kick AND is ideally suited for finish off someone who has been downed.

Funny you should mention that. It's EXACTLY what I did last game. My previous turn, I had thrown a mook from an arm lock for 6 dmg (he had 10 HP), crippling his arm and stunning him, AND I had enough CP left to maintain the lock. So I started my next turn with a Committed Attack Strong (there were still enemies about, so no AoA) and a Stamp Kick to the skull. I used my CP to reduce the hit location penalty and after reducing the damage for DR, I still came out with 24 dmg to the skull.

It was enough to put the mook into -20 HP and force a HT check or die, which he passed (barely).

Then I went on to engage other mooks, but after a couple of turns, the one with the caved in skull had passed his HT checks to maintain consciousness and shook off the stun.

Granted, he made some good rolls, but all of that damage wasn't enough to take him permanently out of the fight, hence my desire to find way to deliver more damage in order to get people out of the fight permanently.

You're already noted throwing from locks. I think this takes a little too long: You need to parry, then lock and then throw, a minimum of 2 turns (or you can grapple, lock and then throw, which is 3 turns).

Doug actually clarified this for me in one of my earlier threads. You can establish the grab with Grabbing Parry on your defense, then use Rapid Strike or a Combo to Lock and Throw all in one turn, which I have used to great effect.

Frankly, I just have mooks leave after this, because they're not paid well enough to throw themselves on the swords of the heroes once their arm has been spirally fractured by a casual throw from a hero.

That actually makes a lot of sense, but my GM tends to make the mooks fight until dead or unconscious. It's not how I would do it, but it's his game.

I note that you don't mention several other Martial Arts techniques that improve damage. I've noted Stamp Kicks. There are also exotic hand strikes (+1 damage but you risk hurting yourself if you hit tough targets, so focus on fleshy points, like the neck), and if you have cinematic techniques available, you can pick up lethal hand strikes or lethal kicks, which will let you inflict piercing damage, which means you can go for the eyes and the vitals.

We aren't playing a particularly cinematic campaign, so none of that type of stuff is going to be allowed. I will, however, look into the exotic hand strikes. I shouldn't have to worry too much about injuring myself as no one really wears much armor in this game, and most of what is used is soft/flexible.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

Any attack? Which book is that in? I completely missed this. I thought it had to be a Major Wound to those areas to force a Stun Check. Do you have a page number I can reference?

The Basic Set, p. B420.

KNOCKDOWN
AND STUNNING
Whenever you suffer a major
wound, and whenever you are struck
in the head (skull, face, or eye) or vitals
for enough injury to cause a shock
penalty (see Shock, p. 419), you must
make an immediate HT roll to avoid
knockdown and stunning.

Modifiers: -5 for a major wound to
the face or vitals (or to the groin, on a
humanoid male); -10 for a major
wound to the skull or eye; +3 for High
Pain Threshold, or -4 for Low Pain
Threshold.