4e or not 4e, that is the question - Page 2

cynical13 · 10-09-2013, 07:08 AM

Wow. So, 4e is that much better? I heard it had some improvements, but so far it's unanimous.

RyanW · 10-09-2013, 07:18 AM

The only person I know of on the forum who hasn't made the switch is, IIRC, copeab. I'm sure there are many others, but he (or possibly the person I'm confusing him with) is the only one of the regulars that I specifically remember having said he hadn't switched. And for all I know, he may have made the switch since making the statement I'm recalling.

Personally, I can't think of any reason not to go with 4e unless there is a specific book you absolutely must use and you know will be difficult to adapt (and the biggest culprit, 3e Supers, wasn't really compatible with 3e! 4e Supers is superior in every way, IMO), or for ongoing campaigns, which is obviously not the case here.

gilbertocarlos · 10-09-2013, 07:45 AM

I'm from Brazil, and here, there's a large GURPS 3e community. I narrowed down 3 reasons why someone chooses 3e over 4e:

1) Never tried 4e, thinks 3e is flawless, says 4e bugs the system(never asks why even the 100 point scientist guy has DX13).

2) Don't have access to 4e books, mainly a language barrier, this is a bigger reason here since we only have basic set in Portuguese.

3) Don't know about 4e, again, bigger reason here, where GURPS 4e was published only on 2010, however, I know people who didn't know there was RPG beyond the original D&D box, so, it may be possible everywhere.

vicky_molokh · 10-09-2013, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW

Personally, I can't think of any reason not to go with 4e unless there is a specific book you absolutely must use and you know will be difficult to adapt (and the biggest culprit, 3e Supers, wasn't really compatible with 3e! 4e Supers is superior in every way, IMO), or for ongoing campaigns, which is obviously not the case here.

Just to avoid confusion, 4e Supers is not the same as 3e Supers. You want 4e Powers for the handling neat non-mundane Advantages of all sorts (Psi, Magic-as-Powers, Supers etc.), but 4e Supers for some stuff much more specific to comic-style superheroes.

The Benj · 10-09-2013, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Just to avoid confusion, 4e Supers is not the same as 3e Supers. You want 4e Powers for the handling neat non-mundane Advantages of all sorts (Psi, Magic-as-Powers, Supers etc.), but 4e Supers for some stuff much more specific to comic-style superheroes.

Quite. Just as 4th Ed's version of Fantasy is about how to use the genre while Banestorm is the updated version of the setting from 3rd Ed's Fantasy.

Turhan's Bey Company · 10-09-2013, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynical13

Wow. So, 4e is that much better? I heard it had some improvements, but so far it's unanimous.

Purely limiting the discussion to the quality of the basic rules, I'd say 4e is modestly superior to 3rd edition. However, as a product line, I'd say that 4e is significantly better. There's much tighter editorial control [1], so rules are better thought-out and organized, and conflicts and problem areas are at least more clearly marked.

1. Not perfect control, mind you. Some of the early books are shaky on that point. But it's still on average a step up.

Kromm · 10-09-2013, 12:45 PM

To be frank, there are people who object to GURPS Fourth Edition not on the basis of what's inside, but because it was designed by David Pulver and Sean Punch based on a game by Steve Jackson, where GURPS Third Edition was designed by Steve Jackson. A significant percentage of the "stick with Third Edition" crowd consists of fans of Steve who don't know who David and I are, and even gamers who dislike me or David for whatever reason. If you honestly don't care whose name is on the cover, then I'd submit that Fourth Edition is superior on the grounds that it's the edition getting new releases and active support. Of course, those things matter only if you're the sort of gamer whose interest hinges on getting questions answered and seeing new goodies released!

There's also a view circulating that Fourth Edition is more mathematical and rules-bound. That's based almost entirely on the fact that it uses a two-book format, so you get more rules . . . and of course rules do come with math. To dispel this, I'd point out that far more of the rules in Fourth Edition are optional, and that the math is simpler (where there's more of it, that's mostly because we made an effort to be honest about showing it so that people could more easily learn and extrapolate from the system). In any objective sense, actual play in Fourth Edition doesn't involve any more rules or math than in Third Edition, and the rules and math present are more streamlined and easier to remember.

cynical13 · 10-09-2013, 01:26 PM

I think I'm pretty much sold on 4e, though any further input on the two editions as a whole is always welcome. I'm always interested in reading about the intricacies of systems and I've seen some really interesting discussions on other parts of this and other forums.

Since the 3e basic book was my first GURPS purchase, it has a special place in my collection. I do miss the art and heavy stock white paper (good for leaving notes in the margins), I'm not averse to change. I just wanted to weigh the options and they seem to lean way towards the newer edition. I had figured that may be the case, but I thought it might be nice to be sure.

Also, I'd like to thank everyone who left comments. This is my first time posting on the forums and I appreciate the quick responses and the great information. Cheers!

10-09-2013, 07:08 AM	#11
cynical13 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Somewhere in the midwest	Re: 4e or not 4e, that is the question Wow. So, 4e is that much better? I heard it had some improvements, but so far it's unanimous.

10-09-2013, 07:18 AM	#12
RyanW ☣ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southeast NC	Re: 4e or not 4e, that is the question The only person I know of on the forum who hasn't made the switch is, IIRC, copeab. I'm sure there are many others, but he (or possibly the person I'm confusing him with) is the only one of the regulars that I specifically remember having said he hadn't switched. And for all I know, he may have made the switch since making the statement I'm recalling. Personally, I can't think of any reason not to go with 4e unless there is a specific book you absolutely must use and you know will be difficult to adapt (and the biggest culprit, 3e Supers, wasn't really compatible with 3e! 4e Supers is superior in every way, IMO), or for ongoing campaigns, which is obviously not the case here. __________________ RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats.

10-09-2013, 07:45 AM	#13
gilbertocarlos Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil	Re: 4e or not 4e, that is the question I'm from Brazil, and here, there's a large GURPS 3e community. I narrowed down 3 reasons why someone chooses 3e over 4e: 1) Never tried 4e, thinks 3e is flawless, says 4e bugs the system(never asks why even the 100 point scientist guy has DX13). 2) Don't have access to 4e books, mainly a language barrier, this is a bigger reason here since we only have basic set in Portuguese. 3) Don't know about 4e, again, bigger reason here, where GURPS 4e was published only on 2010, however, I know people who didn't know there was RPG beyond the original D&D box, so, it may be possible everywhere. __________________ I've revised the Low Tech weapons table: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=112532

10-09-2013, 12:45 PM	#17
Kromm *GURPS* Line Editor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Re: 4e or not 4e, that is the question To be frank, there are people who object to GURPS Fourth Edition not on the basis of what's inside, but because it was designed by David Pulver and Sean Punch based on a game by Steve Jackson, where GURPS Third Edition was designed by Steve Jackson. A significant percentage of the "stick with Third Edition" crowd consists of fans of Steve who don't know who David and I are, and even gamers who dislike me or David for whatever reason. If you honestly don't care whose name is on the cover, then I'd submit that Fourth Edition is superior on the grounds that it's the edition getting new releases and active support. Of course, those things matter only if you're the sort of gamer whose interest hinges on getting questions answered and seeing new goodies released! There's also a view circulating that Fourth Edition is more mathematical and rules-bound. That's based almost entirely on the fact that it uses a two-book format, so you get more rules . . . and of course rules do come with math. To dispel this, I'd point out that far more of the rules in Fourth Edition are optional, and that the math is simpler (where there's more of it, that's mostly because we made an effort to be honest about showing it so that people could more easily learn and extrapolate from the system). In any objective sense, actual play in Fourth Edition doesn't involve any more rules or math than in Third Edition, and the rules and math present are more streamlined and easier to remember. __________________ Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> *GURPS* Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just *GURPS* News]

10-09-2013, 01:26 PM	#18
cynical13 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Somewhere in the midwest	Re: 4e or not 4e, that is the question I think I'm pretty much sold on 4e, though any further input on the two editions as a whole is always welcome. I'm always interested in reading about the intricacies of systems and I've seen some really interesting discussions on other parts of this and other forums. Since the 3e basic book was my first GURPS purchase, it has a special place in my collection. I do miss the art and heavy stock white paper (good for leaving notes in the margins), I'm not averse to change. I just wanted to weigh the options and they seem to lean way towards the newer edition. I had figured that may be the case, but I thought it might be nice to be sure. Also, I'd like to thank everyone who left comments. This is my first time posting on the forums and I appreciate the quick responses and the great information. Cheers!