Post-apocalyptic TL 5/8

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Agent

If 'air rifle' is steampunk schizo-tech someone should tell the many hunters out there killing deer, buffalo, boar, etcetera with them right now...

Yes, and there can be air-rifles, but I don't want them to be especially significant or iconic. This is supposed to be a Western. I want my lawmen armed with revolvers and lever action rifles if at all possible.

Originally Posted by Libertine

What about flame throwers? Zippo lighters are tl 5 & a stray aerosol can and a few jury rigs to keep things in place and you have a weapon for lower income scavengers, also, what about spring loaded one shots when black powder isn't available? And vehicles. With modern appliances laying around, the possibilities for chariot vehicles can be particularly lucrative.

Horse drawn chariots with barbed wire siding and gouts of flame at the flanks, scavenged rifle rows jury rigged to fire at once in the front and front armor with viewing slits. Heavy metal studded armor for horses.

Again, Western Horror not Road Warrior.

Originally Posted by sjard

The problem I always run into when trying to think of what there would still be for a setting like this is that I can't seem to keep technology from quickly returning to at least early WWII technology in relatively short order.

Not enough people for widespread late TL6 (there is a larger more northern state that is approaching late TL6). Remember it took over a hundred million to harvest raw materials, refine them, transport them and assemble them into the mass produced consumer goods of 1939 America, Germany or even the USSR. I haven't figured out exactly the population of the Gold Coast Confederacy, but it's not large. Cities and towns with more than 250/sq mile or so vanished and reproduction taboos and the ongoing blight have kept populations low. Call it about 3 million people at the most.

The population issue will slow down large scale advancement, but don't underestimate how much can be done with a small shop when you already know something is possible.

Yeah, and I don't have a problem there using the normal rules for Higher-Tech equipment. Imported or Artisan TL 6 gear is double cost, TL8 relics are 8x cost.

[Mr Frost]

Originally Posted by Dustin

A bolt-action .45-70 with a tubular magazine is starting to sound pretty attractive.

Bolt action with detachable box is better .

Remington Lee M1885

1885 is very T.L 5 .

[CraigM]

Originally Posted by Nosforontu

Expect for this to result in less overall time spent on the experimentation period of tech developement and more on deciphering historicaly documented tech filling the various blanks in the documentation of older tech.

And that in itself is probably going to seriously impede any future technological development. Overcoming the idea that "the ancients were wiser than us, and old is always better than new" was one of the major barriers holding up the start of the Enlightenment. The distinguishing feature of many of the great pioneers of science (Galileo, Harvey, etc.) was that they were willing to chuck Aristotle and Hippocrates in the bin.

OTOH, in this case the ancient knowledge actually is better most of the time. Things could get weird.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Mr Frost

1885 is very T.L 5 .

Actually it's TL6. TL6 starts in 1880.

Originally Posted by CraigM

And that in itself is probably going to seriously impede any future technological development.

The continued invasion of Earth by inimical, incomprehensible and insubstantial aliens, the entire uninhabitable Southwest, the uncrossable Ocean and the zombie hive mind threat make technological renaissance a low priority.

[CraigM]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes and this was the sort of detail I'm looking for here. What items and techniques that are technically TL6-8 by date of introduction but are totally possible for cottage industry production at TL5?

Bicycles (although they'll be heavy and clunky, and adequately reliable pneumatic tyres may be difficult). Motorised transport, steam-powered if necessary (and probably prone to the occasional boiler explosion if so, although a sensible designer will arrange things to direct potential blasts outwards). Good designs for complicated gears and cams and such.

Locks that actually work. Clocks that actually work. Good topographic maps of just about everywhere. Properly realistic artwork.

Sensible tent, sleeping bag and rucksack designs. Good compound bows and crossbows. Very good low-tech artillery designs. A variety of martial art styles.

The concept of animal welfare (although the reality is likely to take a hit). The concept of mental illness as morally-neutral disease. Open atheism. Secularism. Feminism. The rejection of claims of racial superiority. The condemnation of slavery and torture. The concept of environmentally sustainable practice. Contraception. The awareness of child abuse.

A large assortment of recreational drugs / drugs of abuse. Much better medical care, as mentioned by others. Quite a few nasty chemical weapons. The concept of the fuel-air explosive...

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Actually it's TL6. TL6 starts in 1880.

Remember that it's not the actual year which makes something a TL higher, it's when an aggregate number of concepts are determined to have exceeded a certain threshold.

Many mechanical weapons systems in use during TL6-8 are simply refinements on TL5 concepts, many of which can be done with TL5 artisanry due to not requiring exacting machining, they just weren't thought of earlier is all, sort of like a paperclip.

[CraigM]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That's totally TL5. Pasteur did the theoretical groundwork in the 1860s and Lister the practical technology in the '70s.

The knowledge was there, but sterile surgical practice did not enter common use until the early 20th century. There was a great deal of resistance to its introduction from the medical establishment of the time.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by CraigM

Locks that actually work. Clocks that actually work. Good topographic maps of just about everywhere. Properly realistic artwork.

Didn't TL5 have all of these things? It certainly had good timepieces, maps, and realistic art (photography is TL5).

Good compound bows and crossbows.

Why? Fiberglass isn't going to be available. What are you making these out of that isn't already a TL5 material? Also why bother? Fancy bows are a luxury hunting fad when you have guns.

Very good low-tech artillery designs.

Instead of cannon?

A variety of martial art styles.

What do TL8 martial arts styles have that TL5 styles did not?

The concept of mental illness as morally-neutral disease.

Horror game, Taint is very real here.

Contraception

Absolutely, the fact that too many people getting infected in one place kills even more people is a strong incentive for population control here.

The concept of the fuel-air explosive...

Maybe. FAEs require some sophisticated chemistry and it's not something that you can learn from The Way Things Work.

[CraigM]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Again, Western Horror not Road Warrior.

If you haven't already, you should look at Stephen King's Dark Tower series. The first book (The Gunslinger) seems like exactly the vibe you're after.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by CraigM

The first book (The Gunslinger) seems like exactly the vibe you're after.

Actually, Wizard and Glass is even closer to where I'm going. Down to the Knightly Order.