The Definite d20/D&D Conversion thread

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Some of us already have :-)

Now while I love your work, I must ask, why not use Dungeon Fantasy as a baseline, and build on it? I believe that you are reinventing the wheel for many things. DF15 already provides for lower level adventurers (I see the 125 point templates as roughly equivalent to first level adventurers while the 62 point ones are equivalent to 0 level ones or first level npc classes).

Basically, I want to be able to play in D&D worlds, using the same races and generally using all sorts of D&D elements... but at the same time I don't want to be as constrained as in the D&D system. Or as in Dungeon Fantasy, for that matter.

D&D has had some awesome material over the years, but it was always constrained by its level/class system, and plenty of character concepts were extremely hard or even impossible to implement on the system - and that's where the strength of GURPS are. So while it should be perfectly possible to use the Dungeon Fantasy templates with this conversion, I don't want the conversion to be built around it. I want to be able to use the D&D settings and maintain their general feel without needing to replicate the D&D rules.

I hope I am making sense here...

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Basically, I want to be able to play in D&D worlds, using the same races and generally using all sorts of D&D elements... but at the same time I don't want to be as constrained as in the D&D system. Or as in Dungeon Fantasy, for that matter.

I want to be able to use the D&D settings and maintain their general feel without needing to replicate the D&D rules.

This is exactly why I love the RPM system. It's not constrained nearly as much as D&D or GURPS Magic. Anyone can cast any spell if they have the skill to do so, and "any spell" doesn't mean "anything from this list", it means "anything you can imagine". But anyways, I don't mean to belabor this point. It's certainly only one of many options.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

This is exactly why I love the RPM system. It's not constrained nearly as much as D&D or GURPS Magic. Anyone can cast any spell if they have the skill to do so, and "any spell" doesn't mean "anything from this list", it means "anything you can imagine". But anyways, I don't mean to belabor this point. It's certainly only one of many options.

Well, like I said, feel free to come up with something - the wiki is certainly big enough for both approaches.

Personally, I have no experience with the RPM system - and furthermore, more GURPS players are likely to be familiar with standard GURPS spells, so I am going with that.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Basically, I want to be able to play in D&D worlds, using the same races and generally using all sorts of D&D elements... but at the same time I don't want to be as constrained as in the D&D system. Or as in Dungeon Fantasy, for that matter.

D&D has had some awesome material over the years, but it was always constrained by its level/class system, and plenty of character concepts were extremely hard or even impossible to implement on the system - and that's where the strength of GURPS are. So while it should be perfectly possible to use the Dungeon Fantasy templates with this conversion, I don't want the conversion to be built around it. I want to be able to use the D&D settings and maintain their general feel without needing to replicate the D&D rules.

I hope I am making sense here...

You are. Mind you, I don't agree with Dungeon Fantasy being that constraining. Mainly when you take into account that templates are optional and that you can build a character with 100% Dungeon Fantasy compliant rules using the allowed traits list in DF1.

I was mostly thinking about non-human races and age related traits. On the first, it is true that they don't parallel every version of the same race in every way dnd version, but they are close enough that a set of lenses would be sufficient, specially given how much they have changed from edition to edition and from setting to setting. On the second point, I personally believe that the DF way works well enough.

[Raekai]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

This is exactly why I love the RPM system. It's not constrained nearly as much as D&D or GURPS Magic. Anyone can cast any spell if they have the skill to do so, and "any spell" doesn't mean "anything from this list", it means "anything you can imagine". But anyways, I don't mean to belabor this point. It's certainly only one of many options.

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Well, like I said, feel free to come up with something - the wiki is certainly big enough for both approaches.

Personally, I have no experience with the RPM system - and furthermore, more GURPS players are likely to be familiar with standard GURPS spells, so I am going with that.

If I hear enough begging, I might have to do a D&D to RPM conversion as well. Getting the stuff in from the basic 3.5E Player's Handbook or whatever shouldn't be a problem. Jurgen once had a conversion for Eberron, but, as we speak, I am furthering on his work (with RPM in tow).

[Faolyn]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

This is exactly why I love the RPM system. It's not constrained nearly as much as D&D or GURPS Magic. Anyone can cast any spell if they have the skill to do so, and "any spell" doesn't mean "anything from this list", it means "anything you can imagine". But anyways, I don't mean to belabor this point. It's certainly only one of many options.

The only problem I have with RPM is that, to me at least, it doesn't feel like D&D-type magic. I wouldn't use it for a DF game. A normal fantasy game, probably, unless the world called for something else, but not DF.

[Raekai]

Originally Posted by Faolyn

The only problem I have with RPM is that, to me at least, it doesn't feel like D&D-type magic. I wouldn't use it for a DF game. A normal fantasy game, probably, unless the world called for something else, but not DF.

How so? Put some restrictions on it and there you go! It has been fitting my DF-style/level campaigns for a while now. The transition was hard at first, but it's better.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

Five levels of extended lifespan here cost only 5 cp, because I used PK's house rule for flavor traits when I edited those templates. It is under "House Rules" on www.mygurps.com, I think. Other than that it works just like in the Basic Set.

Ah... I hadn't spotted that. I'd rather keep the amount of house rules down for these templates...

[Faolyn]

Originally Posted by Raekai

How so? Put some restrictions on it and there you go! It has been fitting my DF-style/level campaigns for a while now. The transition was hard at first, but it's better.

It's the feel, not the system. For me, DF wants a point-and-shoot, I-cast-magic-missile-at-the-darkness type of magic. RPM feels more realistic, needing reagents and time and invoking the essence of magic. I kinda wish I was running a more serious fantasy game so I could use it.

[Jürgen Hubert]

OK, using "standard" Extended Lifespan and the D&D Aging Effects table I would give dwarves and gnomes two levels [4] and elves three levels [6], which only causes minor changes in point cost.

Originally Posted by Anthony

I'd give Dwarves the Giant Weapons perk, they pretty consistently use human-sized weapons. They're also extremely heavy for SM -1 (average dwarf is 4'2" but 165 lb...).

That would be the "Huge Weapons (SM)" perk, actually. As for whether they should be SM -1 or SM 0 it's arguable... but let's leave them at SM -1.

I'd consider giving Elves skinny. The average elf is 5'0" and 110 lb.

I wouldn't, since "skinny" is one of those appearance-related charms that are based on the average for one's race - or at least, that's how I've always read it.

Gnomes and Halflings are pretty close to SM -2, and should almost certainly be a different SM from dwarves -- average gnome male is 3'5", 45 lb, average halfling male is 3'1", 35 lb.

OK, let's bump gnomes down to SM -2 as well.

Halflings don't have luck in the SRD, though they do have +1 to all saves.

Hmmm... given that they are supposed to be small and agile, how about giving them a level of Enhanced Dodge instead?

I'd consider giving gnomes racial magery 0 and some racial innate spells.

While "innate spells" don't exist any more the way they existed in GURPS 3E, innate magery and a few innate spells certainly seem appropriate. Hmmm... how about Beast-Soother and Simple Illusion? That doesn't cover all of their d20 abilities, but they provide a strong base for getting there. Beast Soother would require the "Shortcut to Power (Beast Soother") perk, however - while only gnomes with IQ of 11 or higher can cast Simple Illusion