Magic to RPM Complete Conversion

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by starslayer

I don't think that would be the case.

The bane would represent a pinnacle of elvish spellcasting, probably at the upper limit of what all of the wizards they can gather together could represent. To have it fail spectacularly (likely near the end when there skills are running low and all casters with luck have exhausted it) would then see its energy double. Even if the resulting magic CAN be dispelled it will have a total energy pool of roughly double what an entire nation could put together, making it likely impossible to be dispelled.

You don't use wizards as a source of energy for world effecting magics. They simply aren't that powerful without a supporting infrastructure. [Note 1] You use populations.

It takes about 2.5~ billion energy to cast the Bane according to a back-of-the-envelope calculation (two greater effects, aoe (Yrth), subject weight (Yrth), damage (60d, cyclic), a billion excluded targets). A critical failure would thereby result in the Banestorm being a 5~ billion energy magical effect.

At 3 energy per Elf (costing each Elf 9 FP), 2.5~ billion energy is 834~ million Elves.

If they want to dispel it, they rest for an hour and a half to recover the nine fatigue and burn both HP and FP for the dispel ritual(costing each Elf 6 HP and 9 FP to generate 6 energy) ... which nicely doubles the dispel ritual's available energy without risking anyone dying. If risking death is an option, its' even easier to get energy. 18 HP is 9 energy, 9 FP is 3 energy. 12 energy per elf that is willing to risk death. (Banestorm Elves have a racial ST of 9 and so a racial HP of 9. -(HP) is the first death check trigger.)



[Note 1], ... unless they don't want the elves to survive either, in which case its' quite doable with a few dozen high-magery casters. Excluded Target on the Area Effect is the most expensive part.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

You don't use wizards as a source of energy for world effecting magics. They simply aren't that powerful without a supporting infrastructure. [Note 1] You use populations.

It takes about 2.5~ billion energy to cast the Bane according to a back-of-the-envelope calculation (two greater effects, aoe (Yrth), subject weight (Yrth), damage (60d, cyclic), a billion excluded targets). A critical failure would thereby result in the Banestorm being a 5~ billion energy magical effect.

At 3 energy per Elf (costing each Elf 9 FP), 2.5~ billion energy is 834~ million Elves.

If they want to dispel it, they rest for an hour and a half to recover the nine fatigue and burn both HP and FP for the dispel ritual(costing each Elf 6 HP and 9 FP to generate 6 energy) ... which nicely doubles the dispel ritual's available energy without risking anyone dying. If risking death is an option, its' even easier to get energy. 18 HP is 9 energy, 9 FP is 3 energy. 12 energy per elf that is willing to risk death. (Banestorm Elves have a racial ST of 9 and so a racial HP of 9. -(HP) is the first death check trigger.)



[Note 1], ... unless they don't want the elves to survive either, in which case its' quite doable with a few dozen high-magery casters. Excluded Target on the Area Effect is the most expensive part.

And where exactly do the find a master wizard with Thaumatology-834000000020 and Magery 834000000008 needed to cast this ritual?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by lexington

And where exactly do the find a master wizard with Thaumatology-834000000020 and Magery 834000000008 needed to cast this ritual?

Unlike Q&D Enchantments, group castings in RPM don't impose a skill penalty on the primary caster. I do think there should be some limit to how many people can contribute, but it should be handled as a logistics problem (ie, getting enough people in one place and coordinated for the ritual).

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

If risking death is an option, its' even easier to get energy. 18 HP is 9 energy, 9 FP is 3 energy. 12 energy per elf that is willing to risk death. (Banestorm Elves have a racial ST of 9 and so a racial HP of 9. -(HP) is the first death check trigger.)

Assuming racial average HT of 10, this will kill half of the Elven population. Not something they're likely to want to repeat any time soon - or perhaps even be capable of. Maybe that's why they couldn't undo the ritual... in their desperation, they sacrificed half their population to create it.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by lexington

And where exactly do the find a master wizard with Thaumatology-834000000020 and Magery 834000000008 needed to cast this ritual?

You only receive a skill penalty if there are multiple casters. (Working Together; MH1, pg 39)

Sacrifices aren't casters, they're merely a tapped energy source. (Tapping Energy Sources; MH1, pg 36)

The problem with using that many sacrifices is rather simple: It takes a second of concentration to tap each one. At 834~ million sacrifices ... Heh. However, if you don't have that many sacrifices, you aren't going to get anywhere near enough energy to cast the Bane without taking the shortcut of not excluding the elves from the area effect. Adding additional casters cuts the time to tap down but introduce skill penalties for the casting check. Finding a reasonable balance between these things is going to be the challenging part.

EDIT: However! ... this is becoming highly tangential to the thread's topic and should should probably be spun off into a thread of its' own if we want to continue talking about it.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

You only receive a skill penalty if there are multiple casters. (Working Together; MH1, pg 39)

Sacrifices aren't casters, they're merely a tapped energy source. (Tapping Energy Sources; MH1, pg 36)

I realized that just after I posted it, yeah.

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

The problem with using that many sacrifices is rather simple: It takes a second of concentration to tap each one. At 834~ million sacrifices ... Heh. However, if you don't have that many sacrifices, you aren't going to get anywhere near enough energy to cast the Bane without taking the shortcut of not excluding the elves from the area effect. Adding additional casters cuts the time to tap down but introduce skill penalties for the casting check. Finding a reasonable balance between these things is going to be the challenging part.

Even then it might not be possible. You need 26.43 wizard years of casting to collect all that energy. Even if we assume an elf can spend a week doing nothing but concentrate on a spell (no eating, drinking, or sleeping) you need 1380 casters.

[Raekai]

Fixed a couple of minor things! Keep looking back for a bigger update soon.

Changes in 1.1 [July 3rd, 2013]:

• Minor fixes to energy cost mismatches.
• No longer macro-enabled (no point).

[chandley]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

All of this flexibility comes at a cost: in this case, it's a character poiint cost. Namely, in order to do the above, you need a 40-point Advantage called "Ritual Adept". Without it, you can still attempt the ritual; but the energy accumulation times will be measured in minutes rather than seconds.

For DF at least, you probably dont need the full 40 points. I was doing some lenses for all the spell casters in DF to convert them to RPM and Divine Favor (have gotten stuck on Druids and Shamans, likely need a new type of Divine Favor for each I guess), and this was my musing on Ritual Adept:

Originally Posted by Chandley

Ritual Adept. This is a 40 point advantage that removes 4 restrictions on RPM. Requiring a connection (or be at -5 to rolls), requiring a Consecrated Space (or -5), requiring Magery (or -5) and taking extra time (or -5). This looks like its just Path/Book Adept at 10/level. Of the above, requiring a consecrated space and requiring extra time are not great for a full up mage in DF, but requiring a connection is excellent for play balance, and requiring magery affords niche protection. So, Im thinking:

DF Ritual Adept [20]: You do not require a consecrated space or extra time to gather energy for your spells. All other restrictions for Ritual Path Magic (see Monster Hunters 1, p. 36, Non-Adepts and Magic box) apply.

[JP42]

Originally Posted by chandley

For DF at least, you probably dont need the full 40 points. I was doing some lenses for all the spell casters in DF to convert them to RPM and Divine Favor (have gotten stuck on Druids and Shamans, likely need a new type of Divine Favor for each I guess), and this was my musing on Ritual Adept:

You're close - the 4th 10 point level is actually to buy off every energy gathering after the first. Per MH1, p 33

In Path/Book terms, Ritual Adept(p. 25)is priced as four levels of
Path/Book Adept, bought twice for Time – the first purchase shortens
the initial stage only, while the second affects subsequent stages.

None of Ritual Adept buys off the No Magery penalty, you need at least Magery 0 to avoid that.

So I've allowed it to be bought in levels: Adept 1 buys off the consecrated space, Adept 2 adds in buying off the first energy gathering, Adept 3 the connection and adept 4 the subsequent energy gathering - though you could allow purchasers to pick and choose instead.

[Edges]

Impressive.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by JP42

You're close - the 4th 10 point level is actually to buy off every energy gathering after the first. Per MH1, p 33


None of Ritual Adept buys off the No Magery penalty, you need at least Magery 0 to avoid that.

Thanks, missed that. 30 points is a bit hard to squeeze in, Ill have to go back and redo some things.