DF Artillery Mages Noodling

[Kromm]

Hmm . . . Quick, accurate fire is almost the opposite of the classic artillery mage. In old-timey dungeon fantasy, such a mage's job was to sling long-casting-time area-effect spells that blasted everything indiscriminately. For instance, the old AD&D Fireball ("Fire Ball," if you look back far enough!) took three segments to cast to Magic Missile's one segment, and lobbed one explosive missile, not a machine-gun-like spray of projectiles. It was slow enough that interruption was a concern, so the mage needed the now-traditional screen of fighters to protect him while casting. Thanks to the way early tactical combat worked, the projectile could be lobbed over intervening friendlies who were doing this job.

In light of that, I might go for effects more like these:

Artillery Mage

1 point/level

You can enhance Missile spells (and only those spells) with certain ranged-combat enhancements from the GURPS Basic Set. Each level of Artillery Mage lets you apply +1% in the form of any of the following modifiers, at no extra energy cost or penalty to cast:

• Area Effect* (+50%/level).
• Delay (+10% or +20%).
• Explosion* (+50%/level). Treat Missile spells that are already explosive as having the first level of this enhancement.
• Guided† (+50%).
• Homing, Ordinary Vision† (+50%).
• Incendiary (+10%). On a tight-beam burning Missile spell, this removes the 1/10 damage divisor used with Making Things Burn (p. B433). On a regular burning Missile spell, this shifts the flammability class up one step.
• Increased Range (+10%/level).
• Overhead (+30%).

* Area Effect and Explosion are mutually exclusive.
† Guided and Homing are mutually exclusive.

Optionally, the GM may also allow Ricochet (+10%) from GURPS Powers.

You must choose your enhancements when you start casting the spell. If you change your mind, you must start over. If you've already created a Missile spell with a set of enhancements, they're "locked in" from that point on!

Otherwise, the modified spell works as usual. There's no effect on casting time, damage dice, energy cost, etc. Defensive spells affect it normally.

The cost may need adjustment . . . playtesting would be good for something like this. Maybe that should be +2% per level, or even +5%.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The cost may need adjustment . . . playtesting would be good for something like this. Maybe that should be +2% per level, or even +5%.

+1% is too expensive - I wouldn't want to pay 50 points to have Explosive Fireball instead of just buying the spell. +5% is probably better - 10 points seems fair, if you have to choose which enhancement you're good at.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

+1% is too expensive - I wouldn't want to pay 50 points to have Explosive Fireball instead of just buying the spell. +5% is probably better - 10 points seems fair, if you have to choose which enhancement you're good at.

To be clear: This affects all your Missile spells, and you choose the enhancements you're using each time you cast, not when you buy the ability. But yeah . . . maybe 1 point per +1% is too steep. At +5%, somebody with Heroic Archer-level points could get +100% in enhancements, which might be too good. I'm not sure.

[A Ladder]

Couldn't it be possible to get Compartmentalized Mind (with whatever -% for missile spells only) so that they could cast and lob fireballs on the same turn.

That's the route I would take.

*I don't have my books on me so I can't look up point cost, but if i remember correctly it would be similar in point total to Heroic Archer + Weapon Master Bow.

[martinl]

I can see some appeal in better replicating the big game changer spells, but IME DF already does that fairly well. A three turn maxxed missile spell from a Magery 6 mage does that nicely, as well as a lot of the area spells.

The thing that I have personally experienced, and have seen several complaints about, it the deficit of actions for arty mages. Existing missile spells are more or less built to force ROF 1/2 or lower, and IME that deters their use a lot. Players like to take a significant action every round. Non boss fights tend to be short. Old school delvers in Other Games tended to have the option of one spell per round, and at higher levels as emulated in DF, often just did that. GURPS missile mages don't.

Realistic bows have the same problem but we have Heroic Archer to make a valid archer delver. Scouts don't make other delvers obsolete with their rapid bowfire though, so I don't think rapid "fire"fire would be intrinsically worse if it had a fair CP cost to damage return.

So I guess I'm just saying that I'd like to be able to make throwing a missile spell every turn a reasonable niche for a Wizard. Not overpowered, not niche stealing, but reasonable. It might not be what everyone wants, but I don't think I'm alone either. Not that you need to stop talking about "big arty" here - go ahead. It's just not what I'm interested in.

All that said, "artillery" might be exactly the wrong word here. "Riflemage" is wrong too though. "Warmage?" "Blaster Mage?" "Missileer?" "Missilseer?"

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by martinl

The thing that I have personally experienced, and have seen several complaints about, it the deficit of actions for arty mages. Existing missile spells are more or less built to force ROF 1/2 or lower, and IME that deters their use a lot. Players like to take a significant action every round. Non boss fights tend to be short. Old school delvers in Other Games tended to have the option of one spell per round, and at higher levels as emulated in DF, often just did that. GURPS missile mages don't.

Realistic bows have the same problem but we have Heroic Archer to make a valid archer delver. Scouts don't make other delvers obsolete with their rapid bowfire though, so I don't think rapid "fire"fire would be intrinsically worse if it had a fair CP cost to damage return.

So I guess I'm just saying that I'd like to be able to make throwing a missile spell every turn a reasonable niche for a Wizard. Not overpowered, not niche stealing, but reasonable. It might not be what everyone wants, but I don't think I'm alone either. Not that you need to stop talking about "big arty" here - go ahead. It's just not what I'm interested in."

One option would be to buy the Magical Bolt powerup from DF11 page 37.

It's an out-and-out canonical 'shoot a thing every turn' option. And I do mean 'shoot a thing', as it ~never misses the target.

If you want other forms of every turn shot, you could just mix up variants of that.

[Dammann]

I was just about to post something about Magical Bolt. It is reliable and has RoF 1, and does fairly minor damage. It is perfect for fights with mooks, and fills a niche that the big missile spells don't. You trade power for speed.

My only beef with Magical Bolt is that it isn't on the main template. It seems designed for low-power enemies, so it is a reasonable thing for a more novice Mage to have, as opposed to being something to "level-up" to get.

The advantage proposals at the beginning of the thread are pretty cool, too. I'd split the difference on Kromm's version, and offer it at 2% per level, since the flexibility is likely to be something that gets used less often with more experience. I like the idea of offering some sort of "Fast-Draw" for missile spells, but I feel like the penalty to skill ought to be steeper so that it isn't a go to in every fight. The guy with the rocket launcher just shouldn't be whipping it out so quickly every single time, and a 6d lightning attack feels a lot like a rocket launcher to me.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Kromm

To be clear: This affects all your Missile spells, and you choose the enhancements you're using each time you cast, not when you buy the ability. But yeah . . . maybe 1 point per +1% is too steep. At +5%, somebody with Heroic Archer-level points could get +100% in enhancements, which might be too good. I'm not sure.

Okay, in that case, +1% seems fair - 50 points for "I can do all sorts of wackiness with my missile spells and choose as I need them, for no extra cost" is a bargain in DF.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

Okay, in that case, +1% seems fair - 50 points for "I can do all sorts of wackiness with my missile spells and choose as I need them, for no extra cost" is a bargain in DF.

Especially if you slap a Gadget Limitation onto it.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Kromm

You must choose your enhancements when you start casting the spell. If you change your mind, you must start over. If you've already created a Missile spell with a set of enhancements, they're "locked in" from that point on!

OK, I lied, I am a little interested in this, and I have an issue: the way that is designed gives big piles of options that can be chosen anew every time a spell is cast. Requires a lot of player and GM discipline to keep the game running fast.