Affording a spaceship?

[dripton]

Old-school Traveler had two ways a character could start with a starship.

A retired Scout could start with one, but it was still actually owned by the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service. So the retired Scout could be expected to report back anything interesting he saw to the Scouts periodically, and the ship could be called back into active duty in an emergency. (And taken back from the character if he did anything they didn't like.) So, some level of Duty disadvantage. No Wealth required since it's not actually his ship, but maybe an Unusual Background or something to be lucky enough to get to borrow one.

A Merchant could start with one, but it would be mortgaged to the gills. If a payment was missed, Space Repo Man. So no wealth required because the debt equalled the value.

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by dripton

Old-school Traveler had two ways a character could start with a starship.

A retired Scout could start with one, but it was still actually owned by the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service. So the retired Scout could be expected to report back anything interesting he saw to the Scouts periodically, and the ship could be called back into active duty in an emergency. (And taken back from the character if he did anything they didn't like.) So, some level of Duty disadvantage. No Wealth required since it's not actually his ship, but maybe an Unusual Background or something to be lucky enough to get to borrow one.

A Merchant could start with one, but it would be mortgaged to the gills. If a payment was missed, Space Repo Man. So no wealth required because the debt equalled the value.

Yeah, that's kinda what the old West End Star Wars did... Starting equipment you could just have anything you wanted that made sense for your character, but the GM could put stipulations to help it fit into the setting if it was really expensive So, their example was Han Solo. He gets the Falcon free, but he owes Jabba $25,000 credits because of a botched job he did for Jabba.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

As far as I can tell "most GMs" are also either "insane" or "incompetent" to do so.

Must be the new DSM.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by dripton

Old-school Traveler had two ways a character could start with a starship.

I seem to recall that they both appeared at random, regardless of the players' wishes or the group's intentions for the campaign.

If I wanted to run one of my SF mystery campaigns under Traveller I almost certainly could not get a party consisting entirely of experienced detectives, and might have to make do with a party consisting of a retired Navy commander, a retired Army brigadier (despite there being no Army in my setting), a retired Scout with a Scout ship (despite there being no Scout service either), and a merchant captain with 30% equity in a tramp steamer (there are no privately-owned interstellar spaceships in my setting) and a stringent mortgage repayment schedule to meet. You might get no ships when everyone wanted one, or you might get two with powerful incentives to go different places.

A retired Scout could start with one, but it was still actually owned by the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service. So the retired Scout could be expected to report back anything interesting he saw to the Scouts periodically, and the ship could be called back into active duty in an emergency. (And taken back from the character if he did anything they didn't like.) So, some level of Duty disadvantage. No Wealth required since it's not actually his ship, but maybe an Unusual Background or something to be lucky enough to get to borrow one.

Sounds like an expensive Patron advantage.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Brett

I seem to recall that they both appeared at random, regardless of the players' wishes or the group's intentions for the campaign.

I seem to recall that pretty much everything was random in the old Traveller rules, including a random possibility of the character dieing during character creation.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Spaceships 2, IIRC.

IIRC that section offers only three options, with the default being no maintenance cost (the crew performs all maintenance) and the others being a percentage of cost. I would prefer something more detailed. No guarantee that VDS will include anything more detailed, but a girl can dream, can't she?

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Then use smaller and larger systems. 20 is just the default way to split the mass of the ship.

And it still has a lot of problems, but that would be off topic for the thread. This thread is really about Wealth.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, cargo planes are mostly Cargo Holds, so they can afford to not take the discount on the production cost in exchange for modified 'sturdiness'.

Meanwhile, F-22s are, as far as I understand, 99% made of cutting-edge stuff (at the time of invention), and it would take decades and billions of dollars to make them as sturdy and reliable as a chunk of cargo space.

I offered these as examples. As an engineer I could give you a lot of OTHER reasons why said vehicles have such disparate maintenance costs, but specific examples are not relevant here. Let me give you a more generic example:

A TL9 spacecraft working "on the rim" may cost $X to purchase, $Y to maintain (fuel, ammo, parts), but have no operational costs (licences, fees, duties).

A TL10 spacecraft operating in "civilized" space may cost $X to purchase, $Y/3 to maintain (better systems), and $Z to operate (pesky civilization).

A TL11 spacecraft exploring unknown space may still cost $X to purchase... and nothing else. Self-maintaining, no one to pay fees to.

Further, depending on the TYPE of spacecraft and setting, some of these may have the potential to generate vast profits, others may be of value only if they are sold.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

I seem to recall that pretty much everything was random in the old Traveller rules, including a random possibility of the character dieing during character creation.

Indeed! That makes it rather unhelpful in solving the problem of how to get your players (or your character) to afford a spaceship.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Brett

I seem to recall that they both appeared at random, regardless of the players' wishes or the group's intentions for the campaign.

Semi-random. You could choose one of a number of d6 tables on which to spend your mustering-out rolls, but there were no guarantees. You'd typically have something like 4..8 rolls on a table where you needed a 1-in-6 chance for the ship benefit. The other table provided some amount of cash. And what self-respecting PC doesn't assume they'll be able to get plenty of that soon enough -- especially if they have a ship? :) So you'd likely have better than even odds of having a ship if you wanted one.

As I recall, merchants got a ship on the first "hit", and then 10 years off the 40-year mortgage for every subsequent hit.

Scouts didn't own their ship if they got a hit. They were placed on "detached duty" and allowed the use of an old, presumably surplus, scout ship owned by the IISS. That use also had a sort of reserve clause, as the service could pull you back (which was of course a GM hook for any number of adventures). This one fits more neatly into the "just give the PCs a ship" suggestion.

Of course, the Traveller GM that really wanted you to have a ship could just invoke Rule Zero and just give you that ship, or agree that one of your rolls automatically got you the ship.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

IIRC that section offers only three options, with the default being no maintenance cost (the crew performs all maintenance) and the others being a percentage of cost. I would prefer something more detailed. No guarantee that VDS will include anything more detailed, but a girl can dream, can't she?


And it still has a lot of problems, but that would be off topic for the thread. This thread is really about Wealth.

....

I don't like how large spaceships are virtual self sufficient mini-planets unto themselves. I want them to need to get serviced periodically. I mean nuclear fission plants don't require anything, even more uranium, except every 25+ years.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Brett

Indeed! That makes it rather unhelpful in solving the problem of how to get your players (or your character) to afford a spaceship.

In my old school experience random character generation just lead to people having binders full of rolls to show the GM until they rolled up the character they wanted.