Affording a spaceship?

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

That of course completely ignores the fact that owning something very expensive and being obscenely wealthy are quite distinct situations.

In any setting where ships are very expensive, anyone who owns one is either obscenely wealthy or incapable of selling it. Which is itself a WSoD issue with certain settings, where a simple economic analysis will show the best way to make money with a ship is to sell it.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by RyanW

In any setting where ships are very expensive, anyone who owns one is either obscenely wealthy or incapable of selling it. Which is itself a WSoD issue with certain settings, where a simple economic analysis will show the best way to make money with a ship is to sell it.

Yup. If the average Spaceship is going to run $100 Million of today's dollars then if an average wealth PC owns it his best bet is to sell it, put it in the bank, then live off the ~$300,000 per year interest income he can easily get with that money (which puts him well into the "obscenely wealthy" category). Of course, that leads to a lot less adventuring possibilities, as you can't easily go gallivanting across the galaxy if you just sold your spaceship.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

No it doesn't, that what the word Freehold is doing there is for.

...where are you seeing the word "freehold"?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by RyanW

In any setting where ships are very expensive, anyone who owns one is either obscenely wealthy or incapable of selling it. Which is itself a WSoD issue with certain settings, where a simple economic analysis will show the best way to make money with a ship is to sell it.

It's not that hard to make a spaceship not be a highly liquid asset.

The second point comes down to 'don't make a game about spaceship economics and then make the economics rule out spaceships'.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...where are you seeing the word "freehold"?

in my post that that you quoted to say that it's ignoring those conditions.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

in my post that that you quoted to say that it's ignoring those conditions.

Ah, I see. Not sure how I missed that.

Don't think it resolves the issue though. Your net worth is theoretically a bunch in that case. That doesn't actually make you obscenely wealthy.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Don't think it resolves the issue though. Your net worth is theoretically a bunch in that case. That doesn't actually make you obscenely wealthy.

Realistically, if you're not obscenely wealthy you are going to have a hard time holding onto your extremely expensive toy. Between taxes and fees, operating expenses, and other costs you either need a large cash flow (i.e. wealth) or you will quickly run into a situation in which you cannot pay some part of those expenses and wind up losing the asset. In the real world average people don't own and operate cruise ships, jet liners, or sky rises. It takes a great deal of assets and wealth in order to both own and operate such an expensive toy. Even if you scale it down to an example of something an average person can afford to buy (say, a 2-4 person propeller plane or small yacht) it is an extremely expensive toy to own, and many people who buy one wind up losing or selling it because they cannot afford the upkeep on it while other people don't bother buying it because they don't want to sink that kind of money into it.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Realistically, if you're not obscenely wealthy you are going to have a hard time holding onto your extremely expensive toy. Between taxes and fees, operating expenses, and other costs you either need a large cash flow (i.e. wealth) or you will quickly run into a situation in which you cannot pay some part of those expenses and wind up losing the asset. In the real world average people don't own and operate cruise ships, jet liners, or sky rises. It takes a great deal of assets and wealth in order to both own and operate such an expensive toy.

You can also look at the issue from the other side:

Someone who has a spaceship and the skills and allies to operate it properly is likely to be making some money on it. It's funny to see spaceship captains who don't have the cash to buy a single set of clothes.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

You can also look at the issue from the other side:

Someone who has a spaceship and the skills and allies to operate it properly is likely to be making some money on it. It's funny to see spaceship captains who don't have the cash to buy a single set of clothes.

And to look at it yet another way, if you have 10 gross tons of Wobbly-Widgets that you need to deliver 'cross the 'verse are you going to entrust them to the guy who can't even afford a new shirt, let alone fuel for his ship, or are you going to send them with Interstellar Deliveries who guarantees it will get there by next month?

In GURPS the Wealth advantage doesn't just represent your current assets or your current job, it also represents your earning potential. If you have a low wealth level then you are going to have a harder time landing the kinds of jobs that will pay enough to keep operating your ship.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Realistically, if you're not obscenely wealthy you are going to have a hard time holding onto your extremely expensive toy. Between taxes and fees, operating expenses, and other costs you either need a large cash flow (i.e. wealth) or you will quickly run into a situation in which you cannot pay some part of those expenses and wind up losing the asset. In the real world average people don't own and operate cruise ships, jet liners, or sky rises. It takes a great deal of assets and wealth in order to both own and operate such an expensive toy. Even if you scale it down to an example of something an average person can afford to buy (say, a 2-4 person propeller plane or small yacht) it is an extremely expensive toy to own, and many people who buy one wind up losing or selling it because they cannot afford the upkeep on it while other people don't bother buying it because they don't want to sink that kind of money into it.

The operating expenses of having a ship do vary widely by setting. It may not be that hard to keep a ship flying as a low-productivity asset if you already have one.

But if your (commercial-purposed) ship makes economic sense (sometimes dodged legitimately), and is very expensive, operating it correctly should produce a lot of income. That's quite true.

But having a piece of capital capable of producing wealth, actually producing wealth with it, and being wealthy are separable, even if there is a logical path connecting them.