[MA] Sweeps and SM question

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

Is there another rule somewhere I'm missing that says your SM difference adds to all contests? And if so, does the larger fighter's SM act as a penalty when attacked by a smaller fighter, so a SM 0 guy vs. a SM+1 guy effectively means a +1 for the smaller fighter?

The way we decided on doing it in TG (yes, yes, not out yet, etc) was +1 DX and +15% Trained ST per point of relative SM difference. So technically, you're just a bit more likely to be effective in a skill-based contest, and your size gives you some extra leverage/power, but not that much.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

The way we decided on doing it in TG (yes, yes, not out yet, etc) was +1 DX and +15% Trained ST per point of relative SM difference. So technically, you're just a bit more likely to be effective in a skill-based contest, and your size gives you some extra leverage/power, but not that much.

But not to the smaller fighter. That's where the mouse is losing out.

The implication in this thread is that:

- you get a "to hit" bonus for relative SM (so a SM-whatever mouse can't miss a SM-0 human)
AND
- therefore you get a relative SM bonus for being smaller, which makes QCs related to grappling easier.

The first is true to a small extent - 3.4.2.23 in the FAQ says you get it but you're limited to +4. Nothing I can find in the rules says it applies to quick contests such as Sweep, which are not a second "to hit" roll.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

But not to the smaller fighter. That's where the mouse is losing out.

True, true. I was just grabbing the only rule I could think of that applies.

The implication in this thread is that:

- you get a "to hit" bonus for relative SM (so a SM-whatever mouse can't miss a SM-0 human)

If the mouse can get close enough (and this is where the SM whatever mouse needs to get really close to it's target.

AND
- therefore you get a relative SM bonus for being smaller, which makes QCs related to grappling easier.

Yeah, "no way" on this one. I might allow it to apply to things like escape, perhaps, but most grappling stuff, it would be a penalty, not a bonus.

[Tomsdad]

TBH unless your talking about a size difference of only 1 or 2, I'd argue a sweep is impossible in either direction.

There's no way a mouse can sweep a human I think we can all agree on that. But equally there's no way a human could sweep a mouse. Sweep as in the sweep technique, there's all sorts of ways a human could knock a mouse over but none of them are going to benefit from sweep training.

I think the problem here is distinguishing between the physical reality of hitting someone (or grappling them) and sweeping them.

Obviously there has to be some abstract conflation of these in the rules to save our sanity's, but I think there is some room to include the fact that some combat options are really only viable within a certain range of SM variation.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

There's no way a mouse can sweep a human I think we can all agree on that. But equally there's no way a human could sweep a mouse.

If you consider Sweep as requiring a hit location - even though it's a special effect, not a penalty - then just go by the rules for Large Area Injury (p. 400). A SM 0 human can't sweep anything smaller than SM-6 (7") because you can't target a hit location on target that much smaller unless it's pinned or immobile.

The intent of Sweep is such that it shouldn't ignore the normal rules about targeting location, it's just saying you don't take the penalty. In my opinion, anyway.