Cosmic vs. Cosmic (ala Kryptonian vs. Kryptonian?)

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Ah yeah forgot about "extra ST" as an advantage... and no I didn't mean Super ST as it is in 4th, but the first part of your post reminded me of the advantage "Extra ST" as compared to just raising ST

Then I have no idea what you're asking about. You seem to be asking for something nonsensical and we appear to be having difficulty figuring it out.

Clarification requested.

...

That said, if I'm understanding correctly? Put "Bane (Other Kryptonian's Attacks; Occasional), -5%" on their defensive traits and "Accessibility (Not Other Kryptonians), -10%" on their offensive traits. They can hit each other like they don't have any powers that way.

If you do the first without the second, they simply explode into a fine red mist when the other Kryptonian hits them.

If you do the second without the first, they simply ignore each other as they can't hurt each other in the slightest.

...

Pending clarification? *shrugs*

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Then I have no idea what you're asking about. You seem to be asking for something nonsensical and we appear to be having difficulty figuring it out.

Clarification requested.

...

That said, if I'm understanding correctly? Put "Bane (Other Kryptonian's Attacks; Occasional), -5%" on their defensive traits and "Accessibility (Not Other Kryptonians), -10%" on their offensive traits. They can hit each other like they don't have any powers that way.

If you do the first without the second, they simply explode into a fine red mist when the other Kryptonian hits them.

If you do the second without the first, they simply ignore each other as they can't hurt each other in the slightest.

...

Pending clarification? *shrugs*

Heroic ST, Super ST, it had many names over the years of 3rd edition. What it amounted to was instead of the normal bell curve that all attributes used in 3rd edition, you could have "Extra/Heroic/Super/Whatever ST" as low as 1 CP per point of ST depending on the campaign and level of ST. So back then, you could pretty much make Superman able to punch the Earth and explode the planet, or rip it out of orbit for around 5000 points or so, maybe even less. Been a long time since I did the math, but it's nowhere near the 10,000 or more you'd need to be able to rip a planet out of orbit in 4th edition.

Since that's no longer possible and ST is just 10pts per point, I forgot that you could take "Extra ST" as an advantage to allow you to add modifiers to it yet it still affects your overall ST score. I was thinking "How do you modify something so basic as the attributes" again, I totally forgot the obvious, Extra ST, Extra DX, Extra IQ, Extra HT, etc to allow modifications.

Also, I might add that I use the official GURPS Character Assistant to make characters usually, and so while "Extra ST" isn't in the book in the advantages section, it's still something that the makers of the program, the official program, put in the program specifically for having ST with modifiers on it. Which is probably why I forgot about it, and also why you have no idea what I am talking about.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Heroic ST, Super ST, it had many names over the years of 3rd edition. What it amounted to was instead of the normal bell curve that all attributes used in 3rd edition, you could have "Extra/Heroic/Super/Whatever ST" as low as 1 CP per point of ST depending on the campaign and level of ST. So back then, you could pretty much make Superman able to punch the Earth and explode the planet, or rip it out of orbit for around 5000 points or so, maybe even less. Been a long time since I did the math, but it's nowhere near the 10,000 or more you'd need to be able to rip a planet out of orbit in 4th edition.

Ripping Earth out of its' orbit isn't necessarily expensive ...

Earth's mass, 1.31695E25 lbs.

Lifting ST +76 (Super-Effort, +400%) [1140] gives you an effective Lifting ST of 1E13 which gives a BL of 2E25 lbs. Earth is hereby a No Encumbrance weight to you with room left over.

Earth's orbital speed, 32,567.804 yards per second.

Flight (Space Flight, +50%) [60] and Enhanced Move 15 (Space; Instantaneous Acceleration, +50%) [450], assuming a Basic Speed of 5.00, gives you a Space Move of 327,680 yards per second. More than sufficient to shove the planet around.

Total point cost? [1,650].

Smashing Earth with a punch isn't necessarily expensive either ...

Per GURPS Supers, pg 125, you're talking Super-ST 55 [2,200] to potentially one-shot 1.88 billion HP with a 5 million DR shell.

Note that if you take Super-ST 55, you'd only need to take Lifting ST +21 (Super-Effort, +400%) [315] in addition in order to do the stuff in the first section.

Total cost? [2,200].

Total cost to do both? [3,025]. You were saying something about it costing too many points? Heh.

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Also, I might add that I use the official GURPS Character Assistant to make characters usually, and so while "Extra ST" isn't in the book in the advantages section, it's still something that the makers of the program, the official program, put in the program specifically for having ST with modifiers on it. Which is probably why I forgot about it, and also why you have no idea what I am talking about.

I'm aware of GCA's terminology, yes. That wasn't the confusing part.

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Ripping Earth out of its' orbit isn't necessarily expensive ...

Earth's mass, 1.31695E25 lbs.

Lifting ST +76 (Super-Effort, +400%) [1140] gives you an effective Lifting ST of 1E13 which gives a BL of 2E25 lbs. Earth is hereby a No Encumbrance weight to you with room left over.

Earth's orbital speed, 32,567.804 yards per second.

Flight (Space Flight, +50%) [60] and Enhanced Move 15 (Space; Instantaneous Acceleration, +50%) [450], assuming a Basic Speed of 5.00, gives you a Space Move of 327,680 yards per second. More than sufficient to shove the planet around.

Total point cost? [1,650].

Smashing Earth with a punch isn't necessarily expensive either ...

Per GURPS Supers, pg 125, you're talking Super-ST 55 [2,200] to potentially one-shot 1.88 billion HP with a 5 million DR shell.

Note that if you take Super-ST 55, you'd only need to take Lifting ST +21 (Super-Effort, +400%) [315] in addition in order to do the stuff in the first section.

Total cost? [2,200].

Total cost to do both? [3,025]. You were saying something about it costing too many points? Heh.



I'm aware of GCA's terminology, yes. That wasn't the confusing part.

Then I have no idea what was confusing you, as I said I merely forgot that there was a way to put modifiers on ST.

As for mentioning Super ST in "GURPS Supers" are we talking the 3rd edition book, or the new 4th ed PDF? Because I have the former, but not the latter. IF they once again made insane levels of ST ultra cheap by creating a whole new ST stat as it looks like, well... IMO that's a reason to just stick with GURPS Powers in my games.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Then I have no idea what was confusing you, as I said I merely forgot that there was a way to put modifiers on ST.

About what question you're asking with this thread. I think I answered it with the mandatory Bane on defensive traits and Accessibility on offensive traits, but I'm not sure and so I was asking for you to clarify.

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

As for mentioning Super ST in "GURPS Supers" are we talking the 3rd edition book, or the new 4th ed PDF? Because I have the former, but not the latter. IF they once again made insane levels of ST ultra cheap by creating a whole new ST stat as it looks like, well... IMO that's a reason to just stick with GURPS Powers in my games.

4E. The forums don't support 3E unless you make it explicitly clear that is what you're asking about.

GURPS Powers includes Super-Effort for Lifting ST on pg 58. GURPS Supers merely expands it so that you can take it on Striking ST as well for four-color and ultraviolent games. It also packages {Extra HP; Lifting ST (Super-Effort); Striking ST (Super-Effort)} into a single advantage, Super-ST, for ease of notation and a small discount (it should be 10/ with a +320% enhancement, they have it at 10/ with a +300% enhancement).

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

About what question you're asking with this thread. I think I answered it with the mandatory Bane on defensive traits and Accessibility on offensive traits, but I'm not sure and so I was asking for you to clarify.



4E. The forums don't support 3E unless you make it explicitly clear that is what you're asking about.

GURPS Powers includes Super-Effort for Lifting ST on pg 58. GURPS Supers merely expands it so that you can take it on Striking ST as well for four-color and ultraviolent games. It also packages {Extra HP; Lifting ST (Super-Effort); Striking ST (Super-Effort)} into a single advantage, Super-ST, for ease of notation and a small discount (it should be 10/ with a +320% enhancement, they have it at 10/ with a +300% enhancement).

Ahhh ok that's not so bad then LOL sounded like it was more like that old 1pt for 1pt thing.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Ahhh ok that's not so bad then LOL sounded like it was more like that old 1pt for 1pt thing.

No, the current version of that kind of system is available at http://www.gamesdiner.com/rules-nugg...er-cost-for-st (when the site is not temporarily offline), and has been quite recently discussed in the "Advantages Are Not Priced By Utility" thread right here. It actually works pretty well, a smoother progression than the old 3e costs.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Then I have no idea what you're asking about. You seem to be asking for something nonsensical and we appear to be having difficulty figuring it out.

Clarification requested.

...

That said, if I'm understanding correctly? Put "Bane (Other Kryptonian's Attacks; Occasional), -5%" on their defensive traits and "Accessibility (Not Other Kryptonians), -10%" on their offensive traits. They can hit each other like they don't have any powers that way.

If you do the first without the second, they simply explode into a fine red mist when the other Kryptonian hits them.

If you do the second without the first, they simply ignore each other as they can't hurt each other in the slightest.

...

Pending clarification? *shrugs*

Yeah, and even both together doesn't make much sense, since they wouldn't knock each other through buildings like in Superman II.

High actual ST (probably bought with Super-Effort), probably not with Cosmic (Irresistible) on the thrust damage (a few levels of Armor Divisor might make sense for such huge force applied across the small cross section of a human fist), since things like knocking down walls depend on overcoming their HP, not just penetrating their DR (even their cover DR). And after all, you want to be able to lift huge amounts too. Balance that against not just high DR, but the extended Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction) and/or really high HP. Get the balance between the two right (maybe look at average damage done by one normal human punching another as a percentage of total HP, and go from there in tweaking), and it should be pretty much what you're looking for, two superhumans having roughly the same effect on each other as two humans, but completely wrecking their surroundings.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Yeah, and even both together doesn't make much sense, since they wouldn't knock each other through buildings like in Superman II.

Yeah, Kryptonians don't really have a "negate one another's powers" ability, they just have damage and defenses on roughly the same scale. It would be simplest to have an "M-scale" (or whatever) advantage, which GURPS lacks; based on IT(DR) and super-effort ST, D-scale should be 500 points, C-scale 1,000, M-scale 1,500, and so on.