GURPS Basic Set 4E, Revised...?

[namada]

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[Kromm]

Originally Posted by fartrader

1. Has there been any discussion on such a thing, officially or not?

That's the sort of thing that we would discuss officially but also internally (before raising the point with customers, I mean). I will only say that we have never had a serious internal discussion about it.

Originally Posted by fartrader

2. Do you think it's time/needed?

Given that the appendix added to the Basic Set, Third Edition Revised – and ultimately, all of Compendium I and II – came to be seen as "required," even though SJ Games didn't force them down throats, it stands to reason that any addendum or compendium for the Basic Set, Fourth Edition would come to be seen as "required." As we already get a lot of flak for how large the Basic Set, Fourth Edition is, I think that if we did have a serious internal discussion, we would conclude that an intermediate edition would be suicidally bad. At 576 pages plus appendices and/or compendia, the game would be lambasted by the hobby and summarily executed.

Originally Posted by fartrader

3. What would be added in the appendix and how?

See above, really . . . Inasmuch as a revision would even be considered, it's certainly the case that we would focus on adding in innovations from GURPS Fourth Edition supplements published since 2004. We would not re-revisit GURPS Third Edition supplements. A stated goal of the multi-year process of revising 3e to 4e was putting those old works to bed going forward.

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

But collecting the hiking, telegraphic attack, chase, trap, etc. rules

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of post-2004 content to which I'm referring in my third answer above!

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

For that matter, has everything in Compendium II been updated to 4E yet? I know the Basic set is missing the worked-example diseases and poisons and herbs, outdoor hazards, atmospheres, gravity, pressure, pollution, radiation, Enigmatic Alien Device Button-Pushing Table, and healing tech rules.

You might be missing pages, then, since my copy includes Different Gravity (p. B350), Hazardous Atmospheres (p. B429), Atmospheric Pressure (pp. B429-430), Gravity and Acceleration (p. B434), Pressure (p. B435), Radiation (pp. B435-436), etc. and even the Enigmatic Device Table (pp. B478-479). Specific diseases, herbs, poisons, etc. were omitted as non-generic . . . they're world-specific, although long lists for the real world do appear in supplements like Low-Tech.

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

I'm guessing the mass combat and abstract vehicular combat have been updated in some other book, though.

Mass combat is in Mass Combat. Basic Vehicular Combat is on pp. B467-470; the advanced version will have to wait for Vehicle Design.

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Ultimately, I think that a lot of "missing" content is actually out there in either the Basic Set, Fourth Edition or a PDF. Current thinking at SJ Games is to sell add-on content via PDFs on e23, and I somewhat doubt that we would steal the thunder from existing publications by republishing key rules in a collection. Considering those rules for a future full edition – in the 2020s, as others have said – is a whole other issue. That is very likely what we would do, assuming there is a 5e someday.

[Beoferret]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

(1), a few threads here and there, none of it official. I am given to understand (and am also given to understand that my understanding may be wrong) that they don't intend to do a 4Er, but may consider doing a 5E in the mid 2020s if there is sufficient demand and the game/company still exists.

This begins to touch on something that I've been wondering about for a few years now. What kind of sales do tabletop RPGs have these days (Does anyone have basic figures about how many copies of the Pathfinder core rulebook have been sold, for example?), and GURPS specifically? Obviously the market has contracted from way back in the 80's and early 90's (for reasons that have been gone over in other threads). But is there sincere worry/suspicion among SJG folks that tabletop RPGs as a whole will have effectively died out by the end of the next decade or so, or is there worry/suspicion that GURPS specifically will effectively be a dead product line by that point? (and that GURPS authors will simply be catering to the established market and the rare newbie.)

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Originally Posted by Kromm

You might be missing pages, then, since my copy includes Different Gravity (p. B350), Hazardous Atmospheres (p. B429), Atmospheric Pressure (pp. B429-430), Gravity and Acceleration (p. B434), Pressure (p. B435), Radiation (pp. B435-436), etc. and even the Enigmatic Device Table (pp. B478-479).

Ah, yes I forgot some of those. Thank you. :) But looking at Basic, I still can't find gunfire and climbing in varying gravity. Basic is also less detailed on atmospheric gasses and radiation sources, and B. 430 lacks much of the arctic/cold hazards and wind-chill info. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more details on atmospheres and gravity in Space. Likewise, I've been assuming all that computer stuff from CII is updated in High Tech.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Specific diseases, herbs, poisons, etc. were omitted as non-generic . . . they're world-specific, although long lists for the real world do appear in supplements like Low-Tech.

And of course, +3 awesome to Cabaret Chicks on Ice.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Specific diseases, herbs, poisons, etc. were omitted as non-generic . . . they're world-specific, although long lists for the real world do appear in supplements like Low-Tech.

In the case of diseases, this was a bad decision for two reasons:

1. While not every campaign would use the bubonic plague or malaria, they are real-world diseases. That's about as near to generic you will get for this element.
2. More to the point, diseases are complex and lack examples. It's better to look askance at "genericness" and put in a few real-world diseases in Campaigns to give GMs ideas.

And, there are a few example real-world poisons in Campaigns, page 439, so genericness was avoided for them.

[Adina]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

In the case of diseases, this was a bad decision

No.

This was a decision you do not like.

What would you propose should have been cut to fit this in? Because that is what would have been done. No set can include everything.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by jmurrell

No.

This was a decision you do not like.

What would you propose should have been cut to fit this in? Because that is what would have been done. No set can include everything.

Cutting for length would be an acceptable reason; cutting for non-genericness doesn't seem to fly, though.

In other words: I'd reword his post to something like "I disagree that real world diseases are non-generic, and examples of them in the basic set could have been really useful".

[Kromm]

Examples of poisons and diseases were cut and left to specific source materials. Then we had a big white box on p. B439 and no art to fill the spot, so David hastily whipped up stats for some poisons. That didn't magically create an equivalent box for diseases on pp. B442-444. A great many things work this way when laying out an actual book rather than planning an ideal one.

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Is that what's called "layout hell" ?

Also, CII had a bunch of 3E venoms. In 4E, venom attacks are all built using Affliction or Innate Attack, with their modifications, right?