GURPS Basic Set 4E, Revised...?

[namada]

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[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by fartrader

Three questions come to mind with this title (feel free to discuss anything else about the topic as well, of course):

1. Has there been any discussion on such a thing, officially or not?
2. Do you think it's time/needed?
3. What would be added in the appendix and how?

I'm just curious what other folks thoughts are on the topic.

(1), a few threads here and there, none of it official. I am given to understand (and am also given to understand that my understanding may be wrong) that they don't intend to do a 4Er, but may consider doing a 5E in the mid 2020s if there is sufficient demand and the game/company still exists.
(2), No, I don't.
(3), -.-;

[Maz]

Kromm touched on it in the April 25 irc chat. The answer was "no", for more info find the recent thread on it.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by fartrader

Three questions come to mind with this title (feel free to discuss anything else about the topic as well, of course):

1. Has there been any discussion on such a thing, officially or not?
2. Do you think it's time/needed?
3. What would be added in the appendix and how?

I'm just curious what other folks thoughts are on the topic.

1) Not officially, though there always threads suggesting it, like the other guy said. I think Kromm said that if the current state of the market continues, there won't be a 5e. If there is, the logical time is no earlier than 2020 (giving it at least a lifespan as long as 3e), and the main media won't be dead trees or electronic imitations thereof, but instead some sort of updateable app.
2) No, though it wouldn't irk me too much if done just right. The current GURPS problems are with presentation, not with missing options in Basic. There really should be full-game folders for Dungeon Fantasy and Space Opera.
3) Characters would ditch Combat Lite and add a couple pages of equipment, change the weapon and armor weights to match Low-Tech, maybe add a few techniques and some common modifiers to advantages/disadvantages. Actually, I know some techniques to add, and those are the Acrobatics ones from Compendium II. Campaigns would ditch Infinite Worlds and add computer rules from Ultra-Tech, trap rules from Dungeon Fantasy, chase rules from Action, Hiking rules from High-Tech, Telegraphic Attack from Martial Arts. The animals would be in the new Bestiary format that is in Dungeon Fantasy and have their attacks specified, and there would be a few common foes, like giant spiders and insane robots (see Savage Worlds Deluxe for a good list). There would be more example poisons, and some example diseases from Compendium II. Social skill rules would be clarified per Social Engineering. The Combat Lite and the Infinite Worlds chapters would be bonuses in the PDF version, and be free downloads otherwise.

[PK]

(Please read the following with a grain of salt and sense of humor. When I'm less stressed, I'll try to come back and provide actual useful answers.)

Originally Posted by fartrader

1. Has there been any discussion on such a thing, officially or not?

Sure. The official talk ranges from "probably never gonna happen" to "oh hell no." Sometimes there's discussion of whether waterboarding would need to be involved were someone to try forcing it to happen.

2. Do you think it's time/needed?

Nah, it's a little too soon. I think we need to see a few more miles of continental drift first -- I'd hate to do a revised version when we're still this close to being Pangea.

3. What would be added in the appendix and how?

40 pages of hiking rules and recipes for Kromm's three favorite cocktails.

[coyote6]

Originally Posted by PK

40 pages of hiking rules and recipes for Kromm's three favorite cocktails.

So, a page on hiking and three thirteen page recipes, huh?

[Grouchy Chris]

Originally Posted by PK

recipes for Kromm's three favorite cocktails.

Yes, that section was sadly absent from Social Engineering.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by fartrader

3. What would be added in the appendix and how?

The rules for Complementary Skill Rolls. It was a pretty stupid oversight not to create something like that during the creation of 4E. Hero System has had a CSR rule for a very long time, and it's a really obvious kind of general rule to have.

I don't like the idea of a Revised 4th Edition, but a 4th Edition Upgrade, as a complementary volume that you buy to use with your existing 4th Edition core books, is starting to make somse sense.

[Grouchy Chris]

Originally Posted by fartrader

2. Do you think it's time/needed?

I don't think it's needed. Yes, there are things in the existing ruleset that could be tidied up and improved upon, but they are minor issues compared to new material for 4th edition that people are continually clamoring for: Vehicle Design System, Bestiary, another worked example series like Dungeon Fantasy, etc. If I were given the choice between getting new material like that or getting a cleaned-up revision of the existing material, I certainly would go for the new stuff.

[Peter Knutsen]

I'd like to see changes to Affliction, because I strongly suspect that more than 1 level of Affliction is overpriced relative to its usefulness. A quick fix might be to say that the modifier is -2 to the resistance roll per level of Affliction after the first, instead of -1, but it's nice to have something official, instead of individual players being put in a position where they have to convince their GMs that the RAW are badly designed.

I'd also like to see Beneficial Affliction be its own Advantage, because it's an annoying and intimidating complication to have to go via Affliction and muck about with all its mechanics, when all you want to do is something as simple as buffing your friend.

A variant Beneficial Affliction, where you can temporarily transfer one Advantage to a target, e.g. Very Rapid Healing, Rapid Healing or Regeneration, or Higher Purpose or even Recovery, would be nice too.

Also I've long wanted to see Blessed (Heroic Feats) generalized into a much more versatile self-buff Advantage, where it's possible to buff one-self in terms of any attribute, secondary attribute or other value, possibly more than once per day, and possibly for a longer period of time, or with the buff bonus being deterministic instead of random.

Then there's my pet peeve, Limited Use. -40% doesn't make sense for 1/day for a lot of Advantages, and players who are empowered (e.g. by world metaphysics) to gradually buy off that Limitation will almost always opt to do so. I'm sure of that.

Costs FP is wonky too. It doesn't rub me the wrong way to the same extent as Limtied Use does, but it'd benefit from a thorough looking over.

Shapechange needs to have an associated IQ, WL or HT roll, so that it can benefit more from Talent (beyond the RAW bonuses to Acting skill) and from the taking-extra-time rules. Instead of it being a small Limitation to Require An IQ roll, its point cost should be reduced slightly, and then it should be a large Enhancement to have Does Not Require An IQ roll.

Cannot Wear Armour on DR is messed up, and would benefit from being looked at. It probably needs to be made into a physical disadvantage, instead of a Limitation.

Officially designed Vows for refusing to use heavy weapons, refusing to use edged weapons, refusing to wear heavy armour, refusing to wear any armour, and so forth, would be nice. I know GURPS DF1 has some of those, but it'd be nice to have that kind of material in a core book. (Note that Vow is a mental disad: a Vow not to wear armour is at least slightly less limiting than being physically unable to wear armour.)

I'd like to see Encumbrance-based Limitations for use with DR and Enhanced Dodge, and increased Move and Enhanced Move. I'm thinking stuff like Only At No Encumbrance -50%, Only At Light Encumbrance -40%, and so forth, although tuned to be balanced (I have no idea if -50% and -40% are even close to being appropraite). With that, it'd be possible to take a small stack of DR, Limited to No Encumbrance only, to represent expertise at rolling with blows, and add a couple more DR Limited to Medium Encumbrance Or Less.

A minor thing, but why doesn't long-term starvation affect IQ rolls? This hinges on an idea I had some months ago, about taking the druggie Perk from GURPS Psionic Powers, and modifying it so that instead of reversing a drug penalty (e.g. from peyote), the character's magical or psionic powers are enhanced after fasting, via reversing the penalty to IQ rolls for starvation into a bonus. But that can't work as long as starvation doesn't give an IQ roll penalty.