Different Cosmics

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Incorrect. It gives you Cosmic PM, +0%, for free. Any power that lacks a power-source modifier is Cosmic.

Wait, what? I thought any advantage without an identified source and PM was "wild."

Although I like the idea of considering "mental," "physical," and "social" to be -0% Power Modifiers on "wild" advantages.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Incorrect. It gives you Cosmic PM, +0%, for free. Any power that lacks a power-source modifier is Cosmic.

Any power that lacks a power source and/or a power modifier is Wild, not Cosmic. You cannot Neutralize wild advantages even with Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%). See the Neutralize and Static vs Non-Powers textbox in Powers, on pg 97.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Incorrect. It gives you Cosmic PM, +0%, for free. Any power that lacks a power-source modifier is Cosmic.

Definitely not. Cosmic PM is +50%, Wild abilities are NOT cosmic.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Any power that lacks a power source and/or a power modifier is Wild, not Cosmic. You cannot Neutralize wild advantages even with Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%). See the Neutralize and Static vs Non-Powers textbox in Powers, on pg 97.

I don't think you can Neutralize Cosmic Powers even with Cosmic +300% Neutralize. It lets you target any power source, but I think Cosmic PM powers are still immune. Powers page 21 reads "nothing can take away the wielder’s power"

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I don't think you can Neutralize Cosmic Powers even with Cosmic +300% Neutralize. It lets you target any power source, but I think Cosmic PM powers are still immune. Powers page 21 reads "nothing can take away the wielder’s power"

Sigh. That's idiotic. Time to take a pen to powers page 21. Seriously, 'cosmic' has always confused mechanical benefit with power source; if you want an unremoveable power it should be 'Unremovable +50%'.

[the_matrix_walker]

It was unfortunate that the name of the PM is the same as the catch all enhancement. But just rename the PM if it troubles you!

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I don't think you can Neutralize Cosmic Powers even with Cosmic +300% Neutralize. It lets you target any power source, but I think Cosmic PM powers are still immune. Powers page 21 reads "nothing can take away the wielder’s power"

It can't, right. Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%) isn't Neutralize (Cosmic); especially given that Neutralize (Cosmic) doesn't exist outside of house rules. Neutralize happens to have a special version of Cosmic, valued at +300%, that lets it neutralize any other power source (except Cosmic and wild advantages) ... one source at a time. Heh.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

It was unfortunate that the name of the PM is the same as the catch all enhancement. But just rename the PM if it troubles you!

But renaming the PM now makes it so Mocsic (renamed Cosmic PM) +50% and NRR +100% must be taken separately. No free lunch.

I think everyone is now understanding what I am getting at. Is separating NRR from Cosmic (making it so Cosmic PM is completely and totally it's own thing, unrelated to the similarly names Cosmic enhancements) make Cosmic powers cost too much? Or would it be fair? (as a house rule)

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

But renaming the PM now makes it so Mocsic (renamed Cosmic PM) +50% and NRR +100% must be taken separately. No free lunch.

I think everyone is now understanding what I am getting at. Is separating NRR from Cosmic (making it so Cosmic PM is completely and totally it's own thing, unrelated to the similarly names Cosmic enhancements) make Cosmic powers cost too much? Or would it be fair? (as a house rule)

To change it so that you require {NDRR, +100%; Cosmic PM, +50%} instead of {Cosmic (NDRR), +100%} in order to get a cosmic power that doesn't require a dice roll in order to successfully use?

It has the potential to cause confusion when dealing with traits that are intended to be both cosmic powered and to have rules exemptions, as you can't reasonable separate out the two things when dealing with official/published traits seeing how Cosmic PM is a baked-in freebie on anything with Cosmic enhancements.

(There are no Cosmic (_foo) enhancements valued at less than +50% that I'm aware of.)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I think everyone is now understanding what I am getting at. Is separating NRR from Cosmic (making it so Cosmic PM is completely and totally it's own thing, unrelated to the similarly names Cosmic enhancements) make Cosmic powers cost too much? Or would it be fair? (as a house rule)

The Cosmic PM should be deleted; the Cosmic PM is really Wild [+0] and Ignores [X] (variable depending on what X is, but usually +50%). Note that not very many powers actually have specific counters -- you'd mostly use it to deal with Affects Insubstantial, Dark Vision, Immunity (which should probably be +300%), and See Invisible.