Different Cosmics

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I think so, as well as Attribute penalty Afflictions and the like. You would have to buy the Cosmic on the Attribute from Zero however...

good, point, it'd be cheaper to just become immune to attribute loss. Even if your putting a couple cosmics on THAT.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by gjc8

To Create fire that matches (some of) the characteristics of Essential Fire from Magic using Powers. Not being extinguishable with (non-Cosmic) water, for example.

It would be simpler just to create an area effect continuing burning attack.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I don't understand. How is it a problem that a power with a Cosmic power modifier can't be suppressed by any power that doesn't have a Cosmic power modifier?

The Cosmic power power modifier sounds like it is worth 50% alone, not counting things like rules-breaking, No Roll Required, and so on. More importantly, what's the difference between these two abilities;

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%)

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%) + Cosmic Talent 1

To me, all I want out of the first one is knowledge that I don't have to roll to use the ability, and that I know my exact distance with it. But, somehow, adding Cosmic Talent now makes the ability also ignore mundane countermeasures and work wherever I go?

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

To me, all I want out of the first one is knowledge that I don't have to roll to use the ability, and that I know my exact distance with it. But, somehow, adding Cosmic Talent now makes the ability also ignore mundane countermeasures and work wherever I go?

The first one already has no mundane countermeasures and works wherever you go. If it doesn't you get a power modifier limitation.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

The Cosmic power power modifier sounds like it is worth 50% alone, not counting things like rules-breaking, No Roll Required, and so on. More importantly, what's the difference between these two abilities;

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%)

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%) + Cosmic Talent 1

To me, all I want out of the first one is knowledge that I don't have to roll to use the ability, and that I know my exact distance with it. But, somehow, adding Cosmic Talent now makes the ability also ignore mundane countermeasures and work wherever I go?

If it's part of a Cosmic Power, you should distinguish it.

Detect Gold (Cosmic PM, +50%; Cosmic: No Roll required +50%)

Powers with a Cosmic PM pay 15 points per level for Talent, which does help level the advantage a touch. But you're right, the Cosmic PM has a great feature! I know I talked about it in a thread once when I said "I found the free lunch!" regarding Cosmic as a PM.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

The Cosmic power power modifier sounds like it is worth 50% alone, not counting things like rules-breaking, No Roll Required, and so on. More importantly, what's the difference between these two abilities;

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%)

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%) + Cosmic Talent 1

To me, all I want out of the first one is knowledge that I don't have to roll to use the ability, and that I know my exact distance with it. But, somehow, adding Cosmic Talent now makes the ability also ignore mundane countermeasures and work wherever I go?

Uh...what? No, that's not how it works because you haven't given either of those advantages a power source. They are in fact the same advantage. Plus a Talent that has no bearing on it. Neither one is vulnerable to mundane countermeasures because you didn't give either a source like "Mutant". or "ESP"

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Detect Gold (Cosmic PM, +50%; Cosmic: No Roll required +50%)

I know I talked about it in a thread once when I said "I found the free lunch!" regarding Cosmic as a PM.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Uh...what? No, that's not how it works because you haven't given either of those advantages a power source.

(by mundane countermeasures I meant countermeasures to the advantage itself, which Cosmic negates)

the_matrix_walker pointed it out perfectly;

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%)

is somehow different than

Detect Gold (Cosmic PM, +50%; Cosmic: No Roll required +50%)

The 'free lunch' is the part that bothers me. But I don't know if limiting Cosmics to take away 'cosmic' or requiring the power modifier 'cosmic' would solve this issue better. For the above example, what should the price difference be between the two advantages?

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

(by mundane countermeasures I meant countermeasures to the advantage itself, which Cosmic negates)

OK, there are some advantages with built-in mundane countermeasures. But if there are, you need the specific +50% Cosmic to overcome them (or something different for special cases, like DR being a mundane countermeasure to an attack). And since you only get +50% Cosmic free for having the Cosmic source, there's no free lunch.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by gjc8

OK, there are some advantages with built-in mundane countermeasures. But if there are, you need the specific +50% Cosmic to overcome them (or something different for special cases, like DR being a mundane countermeasure to an attack). And since you only get +50% Cosmic free for having the Cosmic source, there's no free lunch.

So with my above Detect Gold variants, is there not a difference between them? the_matrix_walker is the one who pointed out they are different abilities, even though they are the same price.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

(by mundane countermeasures I meant countermeasures to the advantage itself, which Cosmic negates)

the_matrix_walker pointed it out perfectly;

Detect Gold (Cosmic: No Roll required +100%)

is somehow different than

Detect Gold (Cosmic PM, +50%; Cosmic: No Roll required +50%)
?

No, it isn't.