[THM] Magic for my custom setting

[reverse_atomic_roger]

Hi Guys and Girls,

I'm building a medieval fantasy setting that I hope to run several campaigns in, probably with a couple of different groups. The first group is two players, plus me, and in the other I'll have 6 or 7 players. I might be going a bit overboard with the detail, but I want something I can grow into.

I was inspired by the Making Mages Colourful thread to try and make the magic particularly interesting, and the setting naturally supports having several magic systems.

In particular, this quote from Miles rang true with me:

There needs to be both low cost and high cost magic. This is something that the first point enables. On the one hand, you want players to have to sacrifice to obtain real power. On the other hand, you want small, subtle magic to give them that mysterious flavor. So give them a constant trickle of power with little cost, and then make them pay heavily for the rest.

The first game will be with the group of two, and I don't plan on either PC being an actual mage, but I want to give them the chance to play with a bit of magic. As the adventures continue, I'd like them to be able to develop into mages, and maybe, if they build new characters at some point (with higher point values) they could build a mage from the start.

So I have 4 magic systems in mind, flavour-wise at least. I don't want everyone to have magic, so I'm currently thinking of requiring at least magery 0 for mages. I'd allow raising magery by study, but it might be linked to thaumatology somehow;

1) Low powered "skills based" magic. This is what I'd like my first two PCs to use, if they want magic. I'd have skill pre-requisites that unlock a few related spells. So for example if you have a stealth skill at 16+, you have access to spells for No sound, no smell, invisibility, or similar. I'm thinking of requiring a ritual, so that casting takes minutes rather than seconds.

2) Narrow but reasonably powerful religious magic. There are 3 or 4 gods in the setting, and each gives his or her followers access to some spells. Characters require religious rank, maybe clerical investment, or something similar, and ritual magic, which gives them access to a set spell list. Higher ranks in the appropriate church allow them to learn more advanced or powerful spells.

3) Wide ranging and powerful magic. These guys are the "real" mages. They can learn (more or less) any of the spells from Magic with the usual pre-requisite chains. In addition, they can't have a spell at a higher level than their thaumatology skill. I only want really rare and powerful mages to be one man armies though, so I'm trying to think of a way to keep them away from casting fireballs in a few seconds routinely. Again I'm thinking about ritual magic for this, with the ritual adept advantage being available to really good mages, allowing them to do the one man army thing eventually. The problem with this is I'm not sure I want all 4 systems to use ritual magic, I want a bit more differentiation. And the fourth system was the first to be made ritual...

4) Shamanic magic. This is a bit inspired by the shamans in Xena, if you've seen that. They'd use ritual magic, with lots of symbolism and sympathy, etc. Most effects would be long range and reasonable subtle, things like curses and working in the spirit world, although I don't foresee inventing a lot of specific spirits to work with.


So its a bit of a half formed idea at the moment. What do you think? Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas for making the systems seem different whilst meeting with the stated goals? I'm fairly sure of options 2 and 4, but 1 and 3 still feel a bit vague.

Thanks in advance

[Mr_Sandman]

Sounds like an interesting take on magic abilities.

Here's how I would do it. I'm not sure if it is what you are looking for.

1. Skill based - Magery 0 plus a 5 point Unusual Background lets the character use esoteric skills like Invisibility Art, Light Walk, Musical Influence, etc.

I really like the idea of setting a high level of a mundane skill as a prerequisite. For a while now, I've wanted to put together a system that goes smoothly from of mundane skills, to esoteric skills, to spells. Magic abilities would be explained as unearthly mastery of a particular subject.

2. Religious - I like the idea of highly limited spell list standard magic for this. If I were running it, I might go with Divine Favor for this, but I don't think that's the feel you are looking for.

3. Wide Ranging Powerful - I think Ritual Path Magic fits here. Not just because I really like RPM.

4. Shamanic - Path magic from Thaumatology would work well for this. I'd use effect shaping, rather than energy gathering. I like the flavor better, and it would distinguish shamans more from the RPM wizards.

[reverse_atomic_roger]

thanks, that looks really good actually.

I like the idea of using the esoteric skills as a stepping stone to full on magic. And it definitely keeps the power level in check.

Path magic from Thaumatology seemed like a good fit for number four to me as well.

what is RPM? I've seen it mentioned a lot on these boards, but had assumed it was Path magic from Thaumatology, since that uses rituals. And is path magic. Since it is clearly not that, how do the two differ?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by reverse_atomic_roger

what is RPM? I've seen it mentioned a lot on these boards, but had assumed it was Path magic from Thaumatology, since that uses rituals. And is path magic. Since it is clearly not that, how do the two differ?

It's a variant of Path magic introduced in the Monster Hunters books, and soon(ish) to get its own dedicated supplement. It's extraordinarily variable, giving mages the ability to build rituals from the ground up based on their skills. Spell casting uses Energy Gathering, meaning bigger spells take longer and are riskier, as opposed to Effect Shaping where spell casting is kinda all-or-nothing.

[Mr_Sandman]

Ritual Path Magic is an improvisational system from Monster Hunters. It's a worked example that combines a number of different ideas from Thaumatology. It's very flexible and powerful. An RPM supplement is coming, although the exact timing is unknown.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by reverse_atomic_roger

3) Wide ranging and powerful magic. These guys are the "real" mages. They can learn (more or less) any of the spells from Magic with the usual pre-requisite chains. In addition, they can't have a spell at a higher level than their thaumatology skill. I only want really rare and powerful mages to be one man armies though, so I'm trying to think of a way to keep them away from casting fireballs in a few seconds routinely. Again I'm thinking about ritual magic for this, with the ritual adept advantage being available to really good mages, allowing them to do the one man army thing eventually. The problem with this is I'm not sure I want all 4 systems to use ritual magic, I want a bit more differentiation. And the fourth system was the first to be made ritual...

You haven't said a word about cp levels and this can regulate the power level of magic far mroe reliably than fiddling with the rules.

For example, if you only have 150cp, then knowing Fireball does not make you a "one man army". If you cast Fireball at a sustainable level you're more like a one man short bow. If you throw a 9D fireball you'll really hurt something _if_ you hit it but you'll be done because of the FP expenditure.

It takes a _lot_ of pts to make a One Man Army

I will also note that standard Magic is alrady relatively complex due to the number of possible spells. Going with Ritual Magic (per Basic p.242) increases complexity by increasing the number of spells a mage can possibly cast _and_ adds the factor of "Prerequisite count" which ends up being one more thing to keep track of.

Think about cp amounts. Thsoe are important to power level.

[reverse_atomic_roger]

I'm thinking of starting with around 150cp. But the characters will progress, and I'm hoping to have players keep the same characters and develop them as they explore the world.

I also want one-man-armies to be plausably rare in the world as a whole, including high point count NPCs.

I'm not expecting super powerful PC mages straight away, but I would like them to meet some awe-inspiring NPCs who have a reason to avoid upsetting people with armies at their command. And when the PCs do develop, I want them to have to work really hard if they want to be one-man-army, even if they've been playing the game for a few years.

I will add Monster Hunters to my list of books to buy, and eagerly await the RPM supplement. Thanks guys :)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by reverse_atomic_roger

I'm thinking of starting with around 150cp. But the characters will progress, and I'm hoping to have players keep the same characters and develop them as they explore the world.

I also want one-man-armies to be plausably rare in the world as a whole, including high point count NPCs.

Stop worrying about one man armies. It's an incredibly hard thing to do in Gurps Magic. Gurps Firebal realy, really _really_ does not equal D&D Fireball. not even Explosive Fireball.

Worrying about the One Man Army in Gurps Magic is like worrying about polar bear attack in Florida.

Now, the One Man Group where the Wizard has a spell that lets him duplicate basic functions of any other character type is more doable. It can still end up being impractical due to FP concerns.

If you are concerned about "power" in Gurps Magic watch FP boosting or replacing schemes such as Energy Reserves or FP Regeneration. Knowledge of spells is a small thing compared to the power to cast those spells over and over.