Hell in Dungeon Fantasy

[b-dog]

I am curious about how to reconcile the opposing views of Hell from myths and from Dungeon Fantasy. In myths Hell is sort of a place of punishment for evil deeds. People who have led wicked lives get sentenced to Hell and must endure punishments for their crimes. In this concept Hell seems to be under control of the gods. In Dungeon Fantasy Hell is a place where the forces of evil live (or were sent to) and it is a place where the gods have no control. In the second concept people who led wicked lives would be rewarded by the demons there. Why would a demon who opposes the gods punish wicked people who refuse to follow the gods? In a Dungeon Fantasy Hell, it seems to function as a base for the forces of evil so why would evil people be punished by demons in this type of Hell? Thanks.

[ericthered]

The most common reconciliation I've seen is that the evil people punish themselves: you put a punch of murderous sadists together and you get a pretty nasty situation out of it. The demons are just a group of exiled souls that happen to be more powerful than the other things in there.

Hell isn't a place of punishment, its a dumping ground for unwanted souls.

[Rune]

As you say maybe they aren't punished. Maybe they go there and just becomes other demons - soldiers if you like.

The notion of "heaven for good girls", and "hell for bad boys" is a religious concept tied to the Abrahamic religions of our world. For instance Buddhists have no hell, you are just reborn as an insect or something. In the old norse religion you went to Valhalla (sort of the heavens) when you died in battle, and Hel (dark, dank, cold place where you were punished) if you died without a weapon in your hand; being good or bad had nothing to do with it.

In a fantasy world I think normally you'd go to the death realm when you die (like the one of the Raven Queen in D&D world's) if you behaved decently, and to limbo if you did not.
In some fantasy settings you might go the realm of your own god if you pleased him/her well enough. But I think you'd still go to limbo if you did not. so I guess limbo (dark empty plane of nothing) is where you, go if no one wants your soul, in a fantasy world.

[Flyndaran]

Assuming gods don't trade souls like playing cards. Most pantheons are full of douche-bag "good guys".

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Rune

For instance Buddhists have no hell, you are just reborn as an insect or something.

Uh, I seem to remembering there being a hell-like variant of rebirth that's for cases when being an insect or hungry ghost is not bad enough. At least in some confessions, anyway.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Assuming gods don't trade souls like playing cards. Most pantheons are full of douche-bag "good guys".

Well, of course trading card-souls is an option.

Another would be using them as (low-output but) perpetual motion engines of sorts. It's just that we puny mortals find the methods of energy extraction weird.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, of course trading card-souls is an option.

Another would be using them as (low-output but) perpetual motion engines of sorts. It's just that we puny mortals find the methods of energy extraction weird.

Sisyphus being the obvious "engine".

[Edman]

The In Nomine version of Hell could work, otherwise?

The wicked mortals gain power in their earthly life... and a chance at true, lasting power in Hell when they die. The fact that Hell runs on social darwinism to the power of eleven shouldn't concern the many egomaniacs that seem to make up the evil alignment, and minions and flunkies probably never stopped to consider what price they'd pay. If demons (as in Supernatural) really are just souls who have been corrupted into something else, well, you're golden.

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Another would be using them as (low-output but) perpetual motion engines of sorts. It's just that we puny mortals find the methods of energy extraction weird.

Variants on this. The Demons/Evil Gods/Whatever don't intentionally punish evil souls. They just use them as a resource in their war against the Good Gods and the mortal plane. And because they are Evil, that use happens to painful for the souls involved. Using them as energy sources, using them as slaves, molding them to make new demons, etc are variants on this general scheme.

Another possibility (not mutually exclusive) is that Hell is inherently unpleasant. Souls aren't punished by demons per se, they're punished by the nature of Hell itself. The demons may control Hell, at least to some extent, but they don't waste a lot of effort making things pleasant for souls there, because, you know, Evil. Hell could still be designed as a place of punishment originally, but the demons are inmates running the asylum now; they've broken free of their bonds, so they can use it as a base, but it's still a place of punishment and everybody suffers there. Or the thing that causes suffering in souls is same thing that makes Hell a safe haven from the Good Gods, either because it was a desolate place the Gods abandoned or as an intentional defense mechanism.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Why would a demon who opposes the gods punish wicked people who refuse to follow the gods?

Because demons are pure evil, in a way that doesn't obey our mortal sense of logic or justice.

They don't punish you because you were evil. They punish you because they are compelled by their natures to cause suffering and you are in their power.

At least that's how I would play it.