Hell in Dungeon Fantasy

[Pagan]

Because souls provide power in both heaven and hell. The only way for denizens of hell (demons) to gain this power is through pain and torture of the soul. Heaven has far gentler ways.

[PseudoFenton]

The way I run it is fairly simple. The lower/abyssal planes (there are more places than hell) are just planes inhabited by creatures and gods determined to be 'evil' (by a consensus of all the gods, they have their own sorting algorithm for determining this sort of thing, there is no intrinsic morality in my game).

If you end up in one of these planes its because:

• you either chose to go there (at death, or broke in/found a way in whilst alive for some reason),
• something there has 'claimed' your soul (you gave it up as part of an agreement, had something way more powerful than you 'wrestle' ownership of it from you) which has basically put you there, or is waiting until your death where you'll naturally* end up there,
• something powerful put you there, which tends to be a fairly traumatic experience in itself - and often leaves you in a vulnerable state when you get there.

* The way you 'naturally' end up in one of these planes when you die, even when attempting to escape the 'claim' of an entity from it, is because of the third point. In short, pretty much all the gods, from the celestial and abyssal planes have agreed to uphold any justified claims to a soul, meaning they'll all send you to the 'correct' place if you attempt to enter their domain. This also happens if you have forsaken the god in charge of the domain you're attempting to get into and they are therefore less than pleased with you, or have pledged allegiance to a different god etc. It's in all of the gods interests to uphold this agreement as you often don't want to start wars over a single individuals soul, its rarely worth the headache.

'Suffering' is a result of basically not being powerful enough to rise above the constant turmoil that is the power struggle that rages in these lower-planes, not a direct facet of the planes themselves or even from any sense of 'punishment'.
The forces that reside in these places just want power and if you can't defend yourself, then your soul is it (which is generally not a very pleasant experience whilst it lasts). If you can defend yourself though, then you can attempt to climb the ladder and perhaps rival the guys in charge - and take their power if you can defeat them.

This is why 'evil' minded people often want to go to these planes, it's a chance of becoming more powerful and living out eternity as the guy in charge. Of cause if you tried this in other planes (some of which are 'lower' but are ruled by gods who don't like this means of running their domains), you swiftly get kicked you out by those who are in charge (and generally put in a plane where that sort of thing is encouraged, as so not to get any neighbourly complaints from the owner of the plane you just dumped them in).


EDIT: I should point out that the whole "casting out" from one plane to another is basically you being manhandled out, often making it hard to fight once you reach your destination. This is why its a punishment to be damned and 'cast down', as the god just chooses a plane which doesn't mind extra fodder being added to its ranks because "hey, free food", and knows you wont last very long there once you arrive there. It's also why gods have to fight wars on their home turf when invaded before they can kick everyone out, they're powerful, but they still have to force them out - which is harder to do the more powerful they are.

[combatmedic]

It could be as in The Screwtape Letters...



SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT

Spoiler:  

The demons actually eat the souls of the damned. They do not think of themselves as agents of God's wrath who punish sinners. God is their Enemy. It's not about justice for them. It's about hunger. There's a more complex metaphsyical element to all this, but in essence temptation is predation for the demons. Om nom nom.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

It could be as in The Screwtape Letters...



SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT

Spoiler:  

The demons actually eat the souls of the damned. They do not think of themselves as agents of God's wrath who punish sinners. God is their Enemy. It's not about justice for them. It's about hunger. There's a more complex metaphsyical element to all this, but in essence temptation is predation for the demons. Om nom nom.

The idea that souls are just another layer with almost exactly the same rules and physical laws as reality just seems like such a lame failure of imagination. It adds nothing but needless complexity. You got to change it up a bit to keep my attention.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

The idea that souls are just another layer with almost exactly the same rules and physical laws as reality just seems like such a lame failure of imagination. It adds nothing but needless complexity. You got to change it up a bit to keep my attention.

Wow, I have no idea how you got that out of what I had written. It's not physical.

Do yourself a favor and read the book before you trash it.

I mentioned, but did not explain, the metaphysical aspects of the book and its treatment of 'damned souls.' That's because it wasn't on topic. I simply described one aspect of the book that could be reduced to simple form and applied in DF.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Wow, I have no idea how you got that out of what I had written. It's not physical.

Do yourself a favor and read the book before you trash it.

I mentioned, but did not explain, the metaphysical aspects of the book and its treament of 'damned souls.' That's because it wasn't on topic. I simply described one aspect of the book that could be reduced to simple form and applied in DF.

How did I trash it? I was lamenting the eating souls concept as too steeped in physical prey/predator eat or be eaten cycle of life. The main thing that makes souls a unique concept to me is that they are eternal. Take that away and it's just another layer of physical body.

[Greg 1]

I handle it by making the devils of hell sadists, which is why they torture people who go there.

They care nothing about justice, which is why being particularly evil might get you a better position in hell than if you hadn't been so bad.

I make it so that the good gods can't help it that people go to hell. They aren't powerful enough to stop it. If they willingly let people go to hell, their claims to being "good" would be hollow.

The limitations on the good gods also explains why they need help from PCs. By kicking demon butt, the PCs are making a genuine difference in the war between good and evil.

Harrowing Hell, that is, hackin' your way in to set poor souls free, is a very fine dungeon adventure for good PCs.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Greg 1

I make it so that the good gods can't help it that people go to hell. They aren't powerful enough to stop it. If they willingly let people go to hell, their claims to being "good" would be hollow.

Not the way I see it. The way I see it, even if you're powerful enough to do otherwise, forcing people who want hell for their afterlife to go to heaven instead would make their claims to be "good" ring hollow.

[Greg 1]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans

Not the way I see it. The way I see it, even if you're powerful enough to do otherwise, forcing people who want hell for their afterlife to go to heaven instead would make their claims to be "good" ring hollow.

My DF Hell isn't a place where many people want to go. It is full of mean creatures and pitchforks and there is way too much fire.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans

Not the way I see it. The way I see it, even if you're powerful enough to do otherwise, forcing people who want hell for their afterlife to go to heaven instead would make their claims to be "good" ring hollow.

Protecting idiots from themselves is often called good though. Good gods aren't supposed to yell, "I told you so!" from on high.