Perk Limit

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What about perks like Concealed Weapons Permit, Early Adopter, or Supplier which, IMO, seem to fit the third goal more than the second? Tactical Shooting (and IIRC Gun-Fu for the second two) lists them as Style Perks, but they seem to be more in the vein of general perks.

EDIT: It just seems (Murphy's level) weird to me that a self-taught shooter in permitting state can't get a Concealed Carry Permit, and an Employee Discount at his gun store unless he has 40 points in combat skills.

I treat these as being both Style Perks for whatever specific style they are listed for and also being available as Social Perks, meaning General, for any character for which it would make sense. The latter is a GM call, the former ensures that even if a GM would normally not allow these Perks to PCs, by allowing the style in question to be taken, he's allowing it to that particular PC.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Apparently I'm talking Martian. I'm still trying to comprehend what the actual rules even are supposed to be to begin with. Every time I think I have a handle on it an author tells me I'm wrong.

The actual rules are supposed to be "whatever limits the GM wants to set".

As I understand the suggested rules though, I think part of your problem is wanting to divide the *perks* among Magical, Style and General. AFAICT that's not the intent. Your *slots* are divided among those categories, but any particular perk might conceivably go into any of three kinds of slots, if a Martial Arts and Magical Style you belong to both happened to list it.

Suppose for example you've taken the Onyx Path. DR is on the Lich template so Special Exercises (DR 1) is a legitimate magical perk for that style. It's also a reasonable style perk for many martial arts, Shaolin has it, albeit with the Tough Skin limitation, presumably a more cinematic version would allow it straight. In some settings it might be possible to acquire it through religious deprivation exercises taught by the Order of Desert Hermits, which wouldn't be either kind of style, so in this model would be a general perk. If you are an Onyx Path initiate with a Rainbow belt in Greater Shaolin who once studied with the Desert Hermits you can take it in any of those perk slots.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The actual rules are supposed to be "whatever limits the GM wants to set".

As I understand the suggested rules though, I think part of your problem is wanting to divide the *perks* among Magical, Style and General. AFAICT that's not the intent. Your *slots* are divided among those categories, but any particular perk might conceivably go into any of three kinds of slots, if a Martial Arts and Magical Style you belong to both happened to list it.

Suppose for example you've taken the Onyx Path. DR is on the Lich template so Special Exercises (DR 1) is a legitimate magical perk for that style. It's also a reasonable style perk for many martial arts, Shaolin has it, albeit with the Tough Skin limitation, presumably a more cinematic version would allow it straight. In some settings it might be possible to acquire it through religious deprivation exercises taught by the Order of Desert Hermits, which wouldn't be either kind of style, so in this model would be a general perk. If you are an Onyx Path initiate with a Rainbow belt in Greater Shaolin who once studied with the Desert Hermits you can take it in any of those perk slots.

Then when does the 1 Style Perk per 20 points in combat skills and techniques actually kick in? Why can't I just take those as General Perks?

[Langy]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Then when does the 1 Style Perk per 20 points in combat skills and techniques actually kick in? Why can't I just take those as General Perks?

Makes sense to me.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Langy

Makes sense to me.

What makes sense?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Then when does the 1 Style Perk per 20 points in combat skills and techniques actually kick in?

Always. These are intended to allow people who didn't specify a style at all access to some perks.

Why can't I just take those as General Perks?

You often can take stuff you are calling General Perks. You can take anything in those slots you can make some sort of plausible connection to your combat (or magical) skills for. Unlike the 1/10 slots, the 1/20 slots aren't limited to anything listed under the Styles you bought Style Familiarities for. You get them even if you have no Style Familiarities at all.

Mind you I think the whole scheme of linking number of perks to skill points is ridiculous, and it does lead to some nonsensical results, but Kromm's description seems fairly clear. I think you're trying to read too much into the various names. "General", "Style" and "Magical" aren't being used as reserved words, which perks you can buy into which kinds of slots are judgement calls in except the 1/10 points ones, which are limited to those listed with the Style Familiarity under consideration.

Incidentally, it appears to be intended that you can buy that 1/10 for each style for which you have a Style Familiarity, counting the skill points in each. Suppose you buy Karate [10] and Judo [10] and buy two style familiarities out of your general allotment, say SF (Hsing I Chuan) and SF (Jeet Kune Do), both of which list Judo and Karate as skills. You can buy one perk you can convince the GM is somehow related to Judo or Karate (the 1/20 points), both perks listed under Hsing I Chuan (the 2 you get from that 20/10) and two chosen from the list of 6 under Jeet Kune Do (from that 20/10).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Always. These are intended to allow people who didn't specify a style at all access to some perks.

If you can just take them as one of your 1/25 total character points Perks instead, how is the 1/20 of Combat Skills even really a limit? Except in the unlikely event you already have 6+ perks and want more?

[Langy]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What makes sense?

Coulda sworn you had said:

"Then when does the 1 Style Perk per 20 points in combat skills and techniques actually kick in? When I can't just take those as General Perks?"

Anyways, that's what I suggest. The 1 style perk limit kicks in when you can't take it as a general perk any longer.

Basically, how I imagine it works like this:

You can get Total CP/25 Perks (any perks!) normally. You can get one extra 'Style Perk' per 20 points in combat skills and techniques, or one in your style per 10 points in combat skills/techniques. You can also get an extra 'Magic Perk' per 20 points in spells, etc.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Langy

Coulda sworn you had said:

"Then when does the 1 Style Perk per 20 points in combat skills and techniques actually kick in? When I can't just take those as General Perks?"

Anyways, that's what I suggest. The 1 style perk limit kicks in when you can't take it as a general perk any longer.

Basically, how I imagine it works like this:

You can get Total CP/25 Perks (any perks!) normally. You can get one extra 'Style Perk' per 20 points in combat skills and techniques, or one in your style per 10 points in combat skills/techniques. You can also get an extra 'Magic Perk' per 20 points in spells, etc.

Okay, but that's a lot of Perks. I generally don't see characters who need more than the general slots, do you? It seems kind of pointless to have slots at all.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If you can just take them as one of your 1/25 total character points Perks instead, how is the 1/20 of Combat Skills even really a limit? Except in the unlikely event you already have 6+ perks and want more?

Why spend the 1/25 general perks on stuff I can spend the 1/20 combat perks on? I can use the general perks for other stuff.

I would start spending the most restrictive perks first. Then the less restrictive ones and last the least restrictive ones. If I needed that many perks.