nWoD to GURPS - Changeling the Lost

Dark Archon · 12-26-2012, 09:04 AM

So, I want to start my game in CtL. I like this setting and its atmosphere, but I never liked Storyteller System - it never was realistic enough for me. But I don't know GURPS good enough yet, and have some problems with conversion. Mainly, I don't know how to convert Contracts system to Magic (Power?) system in GURPS and how to convert Wyrd and Glamour. Latter is the Energy Reserve for Contracts, but how can I make high Wyrd really matter without turning it into another attribute? If somebody solved such problems before, I would much appreciate their advice.

Jerander · 12-26-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Archon

So, I want to start my game in CtL. I like this setting and its atmosphere, but I never liked Storyteller System - it never was realistic enough for me. But I don't know GURPS good enough yet, and have some problems with conversion. Mainly, I don't know how to convert Contracts system to Magic (Power?) system in GURPS and how to convert Wyrd and Glamour. Latter is the Energy Reserve for Contracts, but how can I make high Wyrd really matter without turning it into another attribute? If somebody solved such problems before, I would much appreciate their advice.

Some of us aren't familiar with the Storyteller System. If you could explain (descriptively) how the "Contracts" system worked, then you'd potentially have a larger pool of people who could help.

It'd help (for me at least) if three terms in particular were defined:

Contracts
Wyrd
Glamour

Is "Latter" an in-system term or is it meant to point to the second term of "Wyrd and Glamour"?

Bruno · 12-26-2012, 10:33 AM

I could to shake down my husband for CtL details but he hasn't woken up yet - EDIT: from his book, here's what I can do to clarify:

"the latter" does refer to Glamour. It's not another game mechanic.

From the lexicon:
Contract: A mystical pact struck between the fae and a living embodiment of natural force, allowing the fae to call on supernatural powers.

Glamour: The raw supernatural energy that feeds the fae. It is tied to the strong emotions of the human heart.

Wyrd: The power of Faerie.

(Faerie: Arcadia, or more rarely, the inhabitants of Arcadia.
Arcadia: The domain of the True Fae and once-prison to all changelings.)

Contracts are organized into themes, such as Artifice, Darkness, Stone, your seasonal court (Spring, summer, fall, or winter), or what kind of fae you are (troll, etc). Each contract is basically a sequence of 5 ranked powers (you must take the first power before the second, the second before the third, and so forth).

There are also Goblin Contracts, which are basically "cheating" and will come back to bite you in the face eventually.

In GURPS, I would call Contracts simple 5 ability Powers arranged in prerequisite chains.

Wyrd controls how high a character can raise his attributes, skills, and contracts, his maximum Glamour capacity, the maximum amount of glamour he can spend per turn, and after a certain point, how crazy he is as he gets totally entangled in Arcadia.

Wyrd is an advantage, or a bundle of advantages. It's nonlinear. It's not an attribute any more than Magery is an attribute or Energy Reserve is an attribute - but like Magery and ER it has attribute-like qualities to it.

A character with a Wyrd of 1-5 can raise his attributes and skills to human maximum, but no further, after that one level of Wyrd lets him raise his things one level higher - and in WoD human stats range from 1-5 so that's a pretty big deal. I'd call it "everything capped at 18 or 20" (including skills) and at Wyrd 6 and up, a +5 to maximums for each level. This is a 0 point feature, or possibly at most a perk per level above 5 - caps are not a big thing in GURPS.

The bulk of Wyrd IS the Energy Reserve that Glamour goes in. Glamour isn't separate from Wyrd. Glamour is Special Recharge IIRC, so you're looking at 1 cp per Glamour; that makes level 1 Wyrd 10 points for 10 glamour, +1 for levels 2-6, and then +5/+10/+20/+50 as it goes very nonlinear.

I would call the increase in Glamour spendable per turn to be worth somewhere in the +5 to +20 points per level area, I'd have to sit down and look at how the powers work in detail...

Jerander · 12-26-2012, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

I could to shake down my husband for CtL details but he hasn't woken up yet - EDIT: from his book, here's what I can do to clarify:

"the latter" does refer to Glamour. It's not another game mechanic.

From the lexicon:
Contract: A mystical pact struck between the fae and a living embodiment of natural force, allowing the fae to call on supernatural powers.

Glamour: The raw supernatural energy that feeds the fae. It is tied to the strong emotions of the human heart.

Wyrd: The power of Faerie.

(Faerie: Arcadia, or more rarely, the inhabitants of Arcadia.
Arcadia: The domain of the True Fae and once-prison to all changelings.)

Contracts are organized into themes, such as Artifice, Darkness, Stone, your seasonal court (Spring, summer, fall, or winter), or what kind of fae you are (troll, etc). Each contract is basically a sequence of 5 ranked powers (you must take the first power before the second, the second before the third, and so forth).

There are also Goblin Contracts, which are basically "cheating" and will come back to bite you in the face eventually.

In GURPS, I would call Contracts simple 5 ability Powers arranged in prerequisite chains.

Wyrd controls how high a character can raise his attributes, skills, and contracts, his maximum Glamour capacity, the maximum amount of glamour he can spend per turn, and after a certain point, how crazy he is as he gets totally entangled in Arcadia.

Wyrd is an advantage, or a bundle of advantages. It's nonlinear. It's not an attribute any more than Magery is an attribute or Energy Reserve is an attribute - but like Magery and ER it has attribute-like qualities to it.

A character with a Wyrd of 1-5 can raise his attributes and skills to human maximum, but no further, after that one level of Wyrd lets him raise his things one level higher - and in WoD human stats range from 1-5 so that's a pretty big deal. I'd call it "everything capped at 18 or 20" (including skills) and at Wyrd 6 and up, a +5 to maximums for each level. This is a 0 point feature, or possibly at most a perk per level above 5 - caps are not a big thing in GURPS.

The bulk of Wyrd IS the Energy Reserve that Glamour goes in. Glamour isn't separate from Wyrd. Glamour is Special Recharge IIRC, so you're looking at 1 cp per Glamour; that makes level 1 Wyrd 10 points for 10 glamour, +1 for levels 2-6, and then +5/+10/+20/+50 as it goes very nonlinear.

I would call the increase in Glamour spendable per turn to be worth somewhere in the +5 to +20 points per level area, I'd have to sit down and look at how the powers work in detail...

In GURPS terms, it sounds like Contracts are Powers (with PMs, Power Talents, and abilities). Each Contract only has 5 abilities, set up as a prerequisite chain, so the price of the Talent should be small: [5] at most per Contract.

Wyrd sounds like an Unusual Background that unlocks higher levels of attributes, abilities, Power Talents, and Energy Reserves. Personally, if I were to make the price of anything non-linear, it'd be with the UB (Wyrd).

So each Fae would chose a Wyrd-level. This Wyrd-level would then determine the cap on Power Talent, Power abilities, attributes, Energy Reserve, etc.

The accumulated disadvantages could either be purchased to offset the price of a new level of Wyrd and/or a system of Corruption (from GURPS Horror).

How'd I do?

samd6 · 12-26-2012, 11:45 AM

These parts are fairly strightforward,here is a thread about the magic oths that changelings can swear to each other.

paradoxicalGentleman · 12-26-2012, 12:10 PM

I hope you understand that what you're getting into is pretty big, because CtL has lots of crazy stuff going on and it's not gonna be easy to translate all of it in GURPS terms.

That being said, I'm more than willing to try to help you out, even though I'm far from an expert. :)

What Bruno said is basically correct, but we should consider that Glamour powers not only Contracts, but also the following:
1. Tokens: magical objects that either come from Arcadia or stayed near it long enough to develop odd abilities.
2. Bedlam: basically making people feel the emotion bound to a Changeling’s court.
3. Strengthening or weakening the Mask: the mask is what an illusion that hides the Changeling’s magical features from mortals. With Glamour, you can either hide the fact that you’re a changeling from your fellow Lost or make everyone think that you dressed up as a satyr for Halloween.
4. Pledges: magical deals that will screw you up if you don’t keep your word and reward you if you do. A Changeling can infuse Glamour in his own words or someone else’s and make a pledge out of it; doing so without the other party’s agreement is considered an action far too close to a True Fae way of thinking and also generally a dick move. In my humble opinion this is the trickiest ability to convert in GURPS terms, even if I think we will make it some kind of Affliction…
5. Kith and Seeming powers: like many WoD critters, Changelings come in various subspecies. Each of them has different powers( I think we can work on them after we have understood how to work with Glamour, but if you would like to hear more, I will post details) Most of these powers are Glamour dependant.
6. Access to the Hedge: the Hedge is a cushion-reality between Arcadia and our world. It’s possible to get there without Glamour, but doing so requires a roll based on Wyrd, so low-powered Changeling probably wish to use some.
Glamour is also recharged in unusual ways:
1. Emotions: by syphoning emotions from human beings, Changelings replenish the Glamour (worth noting that this doesn’t harm the humans in any way). Problem is, how they get this emotion varies from time to time (telling a scary urban legend to a bunch of kids works, as does walking along at a funeral) so this is another tricky one.
2. Dreams: yes, Changelings can enter dreams. I told you this wasn’t going to be easy.
3. Pledges: if a pledge states the if you oblige it you get Glamour, you get Glamour. Simple as that.
4. Hedge Bounty: Remember the Hedge? That place has some magical fruits called Goblin Fruit. Some of them give Glamour when eaten. However, eating some without proper knowledge is not a very good idea, since some have… unpleasant effects.
To sum up, Glamour should cost more than 3 points apiece IMHO, since it’s both more versatile and easier to recharge. Anyone can tell how much we should make it cost?

EDIT: well, it appears someone else easily got the one I said was the trickiest part, making me look like a chum. Oh well, c'est la vie.
The idea posted in that other topic sunds good, but I think the effects should be tweaked a little to get something like this:
When the pledge takes hold, who made it gets an advantage, or some other benefit, and a one-shot Duty to the other party (the danger level of the Duty depends on the specifical pledge). These two things should balance each other in point terms. If one party breaks the pledge, he gets some sort of disadvantage. So...maybe we should build it like a Curse with Condition (only if one doesn't honor his or her word in this pledge)?

Fwibos · 12-26-2012, 12:32 PM

Honestly, as a person who loves them both, my first response is: DON'T.

Don't convert it. The system is not meant for realism, it's meant for drama, and the attempts of WoD to create realism (I am looking at you, Armory Reloaded) make things worse.

Get the feel right over the mechanics.

Frex:
I would look at what each contract does and what those are in GURPS.

Example:
Eternal Autumn 4: Ride the Falling Leaves

Ignoring all the flowery words:
You can fly at about 2/3rds your running speed
You only take damage from area effects
You are ignored as a pile of leaves.
It requires Mantle or Court Goodwill

I would build it thus:

Ride the Falling Leaves [10]Prereq: Autumn Mantle 3* or Autumn Goodwill 5**

Skill: Ride the Falling Leaves (DX/H)***

I type slowly so I am going to skip the flowery words

Transformation: Cost 4 ER (Glamour) -20%, PM: Autumn: -10%) [10]

Start with Body Air: [36]

Replace Flight with: Controlled Gliding, ~3-5 (2/3rds of 5-7) (Flight, Controlled Gliding -45%, Low Ceiling 30ft -10%, , Move -3) [-12]
Add Vulnerability: Fire x2 [-30] (Dry Leaves)
Add Infiltrartion to Diffuse [40]

Since you are a pile of leaves, you can essentially become "invisible" by pilimg up in a street curb. But that's kind of a feature. You a re still a single entity.

*Talent that Allows you a bonus to Autumn Powers [5/level]
** Allows you access to a power but not bonus [2/level]

*** In the book it's a physical act (uses phys stat)

So that's how I'd do it.

I would make Glamour an ER, with a cap of 10 + Wyrd.

You may want to Make Mantle 10/level, because it counts as status and rank in Changeling culture. Or you may want to make City status seperate.

Mantle can go up to 5, I guess, it's weird (wyrd?) talent.

I would make a new attribute: Wyrd. Starts at Base 8, costs 10 per level to raise. Limits spending of ER and Some powers will use it as it's skill base. If all do, increase it to 20/level. It's kind of a big deal.

Also: Keep in mind that in nWoD 5-6 is the same as a 10-13 in a skill. It's boring professional, and in nWoD equipment giuves bonuses while in gurps it takes away penalties.

For example

Mirrorskin: They get +3 to Man+Subterfuge to disguise themselves. This is the equivalent to a good disguise kit. In GURPS, this removes the penalty for lack of quipment. So look for an advantage in GURPS that follows that (Elastic Face, in this case)

Oh: One more: I'd give Fae Powers Galamour -5% and another -5% of tricks against them, notably cold iron.

if you want help, let me know. I may have to convert my current Character to GURPS on a lark.

Each Seasonal PM has a penalty for use duing it's opposing season.

Jerander · 12-26-2012, 12:35 PM

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