Steel in TL 2

Comrade_Frog · 10-22-2012, 04:17 PM

This has probably been asked before, but I've been digging through low tech and can't find mention of damascus, wootz, pattern-welded, or crucible steel. I'm planning on starting a TL 2 game, and I think it would be a handy way to include steel swords as something special. They'd fit the time period, since Porus gifted Alexander a lump of the stuff in 326 BC and the celts were making pattern welded decorations in 300 BC. My main concern is just what cost factor should be applied to such blades.

Icelander · 10-22-2012, 04:19 PM

At any TL, blades made from iron that do not suck (Cheap in GURPS terms) are made out of 'steel'.

RyanW · 10-22-2012, 06:32 PM

Yes. TL 2 "iron" includes a lot of things that would be called steel today. Particularly surface carburized metals. Different ways of specifically treating steel to get the precise combination of qualities, such as pattern welding, differential tempering, or differential hardening are mostly TL3 techniques. I would call most engineered steel TL3, but remember that TLs aren't a neat line that everyone crosses in lockstep.

Realistically, TL2 "iron" swords are functionally the same as TL3 "steel" swords, but high material quality is probably only possible by chance (e.g. by having natually occurring beneficial impurities*).

* Natural impurities, along with trade secrets, are why certain regions developed a reputation for high quality steel. Or in the case of Damascus, being the middleman on a trade route from such a region.

Fred Brackin · 10-22-2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comrade_Frog

. My main concern is just what cost factor should be applied to such blades.

The cost factor of Fine and Very Fine blades. Specifically the ones in the box on p.59.

If the blade is stronger (resits breakage) and holds a better edge having it made from a superior grade of metal is how you get there.

Don't overthink this stuff.

Polydamas · 10-22-2012, 07:28 PM

See Low Tech Companion 3 p. 24

The wrought iron/steel/cast iron model worked very well in the 19th century, but doesn't work so well the further you get from that context.

Flyndaran · 10-22-2012, 11:09 PM

Iron is the element. Steel is iron with useful "stuff" in it.

Anthony · 10-23-2012, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Iron is the element. Steel is iron with useful "stuff" in it.

Various things called 'iron' aren't very pure; cast iron, for example, includes a bunch of carbon and silicon and sometimes other things.

Flyndaran · 10-23-2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Various things called 'iron' aren't very pure; cast iron, for example, includes a bunch of carbon and silicon and sometimes other things.

That's CAST iron, called that to differentiate it from pure iron. Besides, common language is by nature not very accurate.
I know that I wouldn't really want an iron constitution, or eat iron rations. ;)

~~Peter Knutsen~~ · 10-23-2012, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

At any TL, blades made from iron that do not suck (Cheap in GURPS terms) are made out of 'steel'.

Some RPG systems use "iron" to refer to medieval-grade steel and "steel" to refer to renaissance-grade steel. AFAIK GURPS is not one of those systems, though.

Icelander · 10-23-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Some RPG systems use "iron" to refer to medieval-grade steel and "steel" to refer to renaissance-grade steel. AFAIK GURPS is not one of those systems, though.

In the Basic Set, GURPS used the terms to refer to artifacts made from early steel and ones from later steel, respectively. GURPS Low-Tech clarifies that any effective difference is best reflected through weapon or armour quality rules.

10-22-2012, 04:17 PM	#1
Comrade_Frog Join Date: Nov 2008	Steel in TL 2 This has probably been asked before, but I've been digging through low tech and can't find mention of damascus, wootz, pattern-welded, or crucible steel. I'm planning on starting a TL 2 game, and I think it would be a handy way to include steel swords as something special. They'd fit the time period, since Porus gifted Alexander a lump of the stuff in 326 BC and the celts were making pattern welded decorations in 300 BC. My main concern is just what cost factor should be applied to such blades.

10-22-2012, 04:19 PM	#2
Icelander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland*	Re: Steel in TL 2 At any TL, blades made from iron that do not suck (Cheap in GURPS terms) are made out of 'steel'. __________________ Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

10-22-2012, 06:32 PM	#3
RyanW ☣ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southeast NC	Re: Steel in TL 2 Yes. TL 2 "iron" includes a lot of things that would be called steel today. Particularly surface carburized metals. Different ways of specifically treating steel to get the precise combination of qualities, such as pattern welding, differential tempering, or differential hardening are mostly TL3 techniques. I would call most engineered steel TL3, but remember that TLs aren't a neat line that everyone crosses in lockstep. Realistically, TL2 "iron" swords are functionally the same as TL3 "steel" swords, but high material quality is probably only possible by chance (e.g. by having natually occurring beneficial impurities). Natural impurities, along with trade secrets, are why certain regions developed a reputation for high quality steel. Or in the case of Damascus, being the middleman on a trade route from such a region. __________________ RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. Last edited by RyanW; 10-22-2012 at 06:39 PM.

10-22-2012, 07:28 PM	#5
Polydamas Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central Europe	Re: Steel in TL 2 See Low Tech Companion 3 p. 24 The wrought iron/steel/cast iron model worked very well in the 19th century, but doesn't work so well the further you get from that context. __________________ "It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature

10-22-2012, 11:09 PM	#6
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: Steel in TL 2 Iron is the element. Steel is iron with useful "stuff" in it. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.