Sick of the Grand Conspiracy?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

But a political machine like Tammany isn't exactly a conspiracy.

If you bother to check, you will find Tammany Hall is exactly the textbook definition of conspiracy, complete with secrecy and illegality.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

The other big thing is that, in the words of the old song, 'everybody wants to rule the world'. Power struggles emerge by the naure of the beast. Interests change, alliances shift. The losers of one round of power struggles have an incentive to change the terms of the deal, or to just blow up the whole thing.

It's almost inherently unstable.

That's why it's important to have partners of unequal power as I mentioned earlier. Sejanus and Hoover had leverage over their co-conspirators so that they had good reason to remain silent even when they personally did not care to continue towards the goal.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

That's why it's important to have partners of unequal power as I mentioned earlier. Sejanus and Hoover had leverage over their co-conspirators so that they had good reason to remain silent even when they personally did not care to continue towards the goal.

I believe "conspiracy" requires willing particuiipation. The ability to extort people into complying with your wishes is another crime.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I believe "conspiracy" requires willing particuiipation. The ability to extort people into complying with your wishes is another crime.

It requires knowing participation in most places, not always willing. Coercion can be a mitigation or a defense, depending upon where...

For example, Alaska Statutes:

AS 11.31.120. Conspiracy.
(a) An offender commits the crime of conspiracy if, with the intent to promote or facilitate a serious felony offense, the offender agrees with one or more persons to engage in or cause the performance of that activity and the offender or one of the persons does an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.
(source)

just requires overt action with intent to aid the conspiracy.

But you're right, Coercion is a separate felony... "AS 11.41.530. Coercion."

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Bonus points if you run them like the People's Front of Judea.

I thought we were the Popular Front. Oh, wait. My bad. He's over there.

SPLITTER!

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I believe "conspiracy" requires willing particuiipation. The ability to extort people into complying with your wishes is another crime.

A threat can be a defense against a lesser crime, but it is the authorities' opinion which crime is greater and lesser, or course, and if the threat is being turned in for a crime to begin with, tough nuts for you.

Example: a highly motivated campaign worker is pressured to get a crucial signature from a responsible person who cannot be found, like a credit card slip or invoice for catering for an fundraising event. They decide to sign for the person and the day is saved and funds are raised. Later, when they are in a responsible position themselves, they are asked to do something unquestionably bad but unlikely to be traced to them and when they refuse, they are asked to reconsider what being charged with forgery, fraud, conversion, taking possession of stolen liquor, violation of campaign finance laws, and other state and federal crimes will do to their career. The bad thing gets done and they are now considered a willing conspirator.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I believe "conspiracy" requires willing particuiipation.

Not entirely. Large criminal organizations, which is what the classic grand conspiracy is, operate on a mixture of carrot and stick, ideally with a dose of political ideology.

Actually for the first time I am working on a large conspiracy and I think I have put my finger on how to make a conspiracy with roots stretching back thousands of years. Have a conspiracy leader who is thousands of years old. Yeah, Mister Monday's conspiracy gets at least partially exposed and hunted down on a regular basis. Yeah, Monday's lieutenants try to doublecross him and take over his position. But he's unaging and unkillable 2 and they aren't, and he always comes back, rebuilds his organization, takes over nations, loses control again, move on to set up elsewhere.

Thus ageless leader produces conspiracy stretching back into antiquity.

[quarkstomper]

That's worked for Vandal Savage.

[tHEhERETIC]

Here's an interesting article showing how a strong boss kept the local mafia an open secret, and how the lack thereof tore it all apart. here It also sheds some light on why the general populace would tolerate, even be glad for such a shadow government.

While I've seen the movies (didn't have the patience for the books) I understand Dan Brown put together some somewhat plausible Vatican conspiracies. Given the history of politics in Italy--birthplace of Cicero and Machiavelli, to name two--I'd expect any grand human conspiracy to come from there. They're artisans.

[Anders]

In my study of Indo-European I have now found the word for conspiracy (jalos), conspirator (joros), and conspire (janeumi). You can freely drag your big conspiracies back to ca 2500 - 3000 BC or maybe even farther. :)