Sick of the Grand Conspiracy?

[Anders]

Is anybody else sick to the death of the Big Shadowy Conspiracy that controls everything? NWO, Majestic 12, the Bilderberg Group... I'm sick and tired of finding the same guy behind every curtain. I don't believe in such things for a second in real life and I'm afraid I can't believe in it in a game world.

"But how can you believe in magic and dragons and pink insanely annoying ponies?"

Because it doesn't run against psychology. And psychology matters. With the grand conspiracy I'm asked to believe that a group of insanely power-hungry people can stick together and not stab one another in the back. Diocletian tried to make that system into an institution. It lasted for 1 year after Diocletian had retired. 1 year. Some of these conspiracies allegedly lasted for 2 000 years.

Sorry, had to vent a little. Aherm...

If we turn down the Grand Conspiracy, what are we left with? What can we do to replace the monolithic threat? Anyone? Bueller?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

If we turn down the Grand Conspiracy, what are we left with? What can we do to replace the monolithic threat? Anyone? Bueller?

• Small conspiracies? The Nazis succeeded in Germany, after all.
• Immortal beings? You can get a lot done if there's only one of you and you've got all the time in the world.
• Aliens with non-human psychology? Maybe they can work together for thousands years successfully.
• Competing consipiranoid secret societies? They are stabbing each other in back.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Is anybody else sick to the death of the Big Shadowy Conspiracy that controls everything? NWO, Majestic 12, the Bilderberg Group... I'm sick and tired of finding the same guy behind every curtain. I don't believe in such things for a second in real life and I'm afraid I can't believe in it in a game world.

"But how can you believe in magic and dragons and pink insanely annoying ponies?"

Because it doesn't run against psychology. And psychology matters. With the grand conspiracy I'm asked to believe that a group of insanely power-hungry people can stick together and not stab one another in the back. Diocletian tried to make that system into an institution. It lasted for 1 year after Diocletian had retired. 1 year. Some of these conspiracies allegedly lasted for 2 000 years.

Sorry, had to vent a little. Aherm...

If we turn down the Grand Conspiracy, what are we left with? What can we do to replace the monolithic threat? Anyone? Bueller?

Two suggested approaches:


Varied oppponents: Just use brigands, monsters, corrupt rulers, madmen, criminal gangs, localized and plausible cabals, smallish evil cults, etc. This is what I do in nearly everything I run. As an old Dragon Magzine column noted: Evil is not a club. The baddies don't all need to be connected.




The Dark Lord: Take a page from Tolkien and center the evil opposition in your campaign on a terribly powerful but mostly unseen or distant foe who works through minions. He should probably be immortal. No Grand Consiparcy is required. He's got ORKS! Waaaaaagh!

[jeff_wilson]

No, I don't think Bueller would make a good secret master.


Have you considered moving to a two-conspiracy system? A remains united by their fear of B, and vice versa. It has worked in the US for over two centuries.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

If we turn down the Grand Conspiracy, what are we left with? What can we do to replace the monolithic threat? Anyone? Bueller?

The grand non-conspiracy? It's not like you can't have a perfectly blatant threat.

[Classic Uncle Sam]

I will agree, the omni-competent Grand Conspiracy has gotten stale. Sometimes it even causes players to become apathetic to the campaign because they feel it is impossible to do anything meaningful.

I like to use various shadowy organizations that sometimes clash and compete against each other for narrow agendas. Allying and then double crossing each other at opportune times. You could play that as kind of a "second society" where even though they are at each other's throats they tend to do enough voluntary cleanup as to not arouse the "mundanes."

As for having them be around for thousands of years steadily working to some overarching agenda, that is always a stretch. If there are immortals or some type of creatures which view themselves as apart from humans, it could be doable. People love the idea of memes, so perhaps the groups manifesto is so persuasive that once someone reads it in the entirety they swear to live only for that agenda.

I tend to place my shadowy organizations at about 50 or 60 years in the making and the reason players get wind of them is because they are starting to unravel a bit. That doesn't mean they are less able though.

Also, I tend to think that any very large monolithic organization bent on major control is bound to quickly kick things into a high intensity conflict territory. Which sorta blows secrecy out of the water.

[Irish Wolf]

The only game I play where Ancient Conspiracies exist, or are even slightly believable, is World of Darkness/Vampire: the Requiem. Because there, there really are immortals hiding behind the scenes (the Kindred), aliens that don't think quite like humans (Changelings), and eldritch threats beyond human comprehension (werewolves, kept from normal sight by the Veil; Things About Which Man Was Not Meant To Know, that even Kindred elders speak of in whispers for fear of attracting their attention...).

In some other games, I've posited attempts at conspiracies, but much like real-world conspiracies, they tend to fall apart a few years after encompassing more than a handful of people. Living humans are very bad at keeping secrets.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Is anybody else sick to the death of the Big Shadowy Conspiracy that controls everything? NWO, Majestic 12, the Bilderberg Group... I'm sick and tired of finding the same guy behind every curtain. I don't believe in such things for a second in real life and I'm afraid I can't believe in it in a game world.

"But how can you believe in magic and dragons and pink insanely annoying ponies?"

Because it doesn't run against psychology. And psychology matters. With the grand conspiracy I'm asked to believe that a group of insanely power-hungry people can stick together and not stab one another in the back. Diocletian tried to make that system into an institution. It lasted for 1 year after Diocletian had retired. 1 year. Some of these conspiracies allegedly lasted for 2 000 years.

Sorry, had to vent a little. Aherm...

I agree entirely. I've never been a big fan of the Universal Omnipotent Conspiracy, for precisely the reasons you list. It doesn't work. It doesn't fit human nature.

Now, if you assume that the powers behind such a conspiracy are not human then suddenly it can work, within limits. But only then.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Classic Uncle Sam

I like to use various shadowy organizations that sometimes clash and compete against each other for narrow agendas. Allying and then double crossing each other at opportune times. You could play that as kind of a "second society" where even though they are at each other's throats they tend to do enough voluntary cleanup as to not arouse the "mundanes."

One trick to make shadowy organizations work is to have them actually behave like such. Shadowy organizations stay in the shadows by arranging their affairs to avoid notice, and by having ways to silence people who might otherwise talk. This can be violent, but does not have to be.

But shadowy organizations that behave like they do in Hollywood versions would not long stay secret or effective. Endless repeated threats to the heroes, threats that are not carried out until (at least) the third or fourth or fifth time, loose ends left untied because of plot convenience, etc. Not to mention death traps and murder attempts based on bizarre, improbable methods, rather than a simple, reliable bullet or blade.

What sort of things can a believable shadowy outfit do that they usually don't in Hollywood?

If the intrepid hero knows too much, but it would be inconvenient to kill him, they can try things like:

1. Discredit him. Forged documents can be used for this, or faked video. A few believable witnesses lying through their teeth can do a lot of damage to a reputation, too.

2. Sue him into a smoking crater. The suits don't have to be well-grounded, and can seem to come from any number of proxy sources. Even if the hero can defeat the court attack, he has to spend money and time to do it, and they can always keep hitting him again.

3. Make his job disappear (or otherwise cut off his source of support). If his patron suddenly won't/can't fund him anymore, he may have to drop his opposition to the shadows just to find a job to pay the bills.

4. Buy him off. It works a lot of the time, after all, especially when offered in tandem with the hard option (i.e. 'silver or lead').

5. Frame him. Even if he beats the rap, a lot of time and money and reputation has to be spent...if they have leverage or influence with relevant law enforcement personnel, this tactic can be very close to unbeatable.

6. Of course all this stuff can be applied to loved ones and relatives too, even if the hero is unmoved by threats to his own reputation or well-being, his parents, wife/husband/ and kids, friends, cousins, etc, are a different issue.

A competent shadowy outfit won't make 15 threats before actually doing something, though. They won't leave known loose ends unwatched, at the very least they'll keep track of them (if they can).

[samd6]

Originally Posted by Irish Wolf

The only game I play where Ancient Conspiracies exist, or are even slightly believable, is World of Darkness

There is a fan game (Genius: The Transgression) where there used to be a big conspiracy that controlled everything. They got killed off, and now no one is in charge.

nWoD has dozens of little conspiracies (I think about 5 per main book, more in the splatbooks, and more in the fan games), and those spend most of their time scheming against each other.