How to see someone with obscure

[vicky_molokh]

Obscured vision seems to be counterable by Acute Vision, since there's a case of
Acute Vision (Accessibility, Only to compensate for glare and haze, -50%) [1/level].

Whether Targeting can be considered a vision-impairing effect (and thus compensated by Acute Vision) I am unsure. I guess it depends on whether it is Obscure (Vision), -20% Targeting Only, or Obscure (Targeting). I honestly don't remember.

[xpto]

Sorry I forgot to say that I wanted to counter level 10.

So:
-Obscure(vision) level 10 can be countered by?
-Obscure(vision) targeting only [-20%] can be countered by?

[xpto]

Some questions and my opinions regarding all posted information:

-Obscure(vision) level 10 can be countered by?

• See Invisible with True Sight - How can see invis pierce a ball of smoke or darkness?
• An alternate vision mode - For example clairvoyance?
• An alternate sense entirely (Vibration Sense, Radar, Sonar, etc) - I agree.
• High skill - not against level 10, at least by raw.
• High vision bonuses - not against level 10, at least by raw.
• Darkvision - it could work if obscure represents a ball of darkness but not it it represents a ball of smoke.
• Clairsentience, Hyperspectral Vision, and Penetrating Vision - Clairsentience gives you darkvision and should be treated as such, apart from that no other bonus. The others could/should work.

-Obscure(vision) targeting only [-20%] can be countered by?

• See Invisible with True Sight - I agree.
• An alternate vision mode - For example clairvoyance?
• An alternate sense entirely (Vibration Sense, Radar, Sonar, etc) - I agree
• High skill - I agree.
• High vision bonuses - How would this work? "the target is standing next to you with obscure targeting only level 10" - you have percection 10 and so are at -10 to hit; you have perception 20 you should be at ?
• Darkvision - Do you believe this should work?
• Clairsentience, Hyperspectral Vision, and Penetrating Vision - Clairsentience gives you darkvision and should be treated as such, apart from that no other bonus. The others could/should work.

Any other opinions?

[PK]

When someone buys Obscure (Vision), they also have a special effect -- a way of describing it. That special effect determines the flavor of See Invisible that can counter it -- or perhaps a different advantage that would do the same.

So if someone casts Blur, then See Invisible (Magic) can counter it. If someone buys Obscure (Vision) defined as shifting his visual image into another dimension, then See Invisible (Interdimensional) can counter it. Note that, if that same person added Psi, -10% as a power modifier, See Invisible (Interdimensional or Psionic) would counter it. As a point of difference, if someone bought Obscure (Vision) as a field of pure darkness, Dark Vision would counter it (since you're not looking for someone invisible, just trying to pierce the darkness).

So there's no universal counter, because it depends on the specifics . . . though See Invisible is a good first choice.

PS: The Targeting Only modifier is a red herring. To counter Obscure (Foo; Targeting Only), use whatever counters Obscure (Foo).

[vicky_molokh]

The other interesting question is, does Acute Vision counter the combat penalty of Obscure?

As in:

Attacker with Broadsword/DX at level 15. Target with Obscure 5. Final modifier 15-5=10.
Attacker with Bs/DX at 15, Acute Vision 3. Target with Obscure 5. Final mod?

The case with Acute Vision being the legit way to counter glare and haze seems to say that yes, Acute Vision should negate the penalties. But this looks weird, since, e.g., having high Perception (which includes Vision) does not seem to do that.